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Post by spaniardintheberks on Mar 4, 2011 9:45:23 GMT
Hi all,
Not being a drummer myself I've often wondered about Ringo's ability. Most things I read suggest he was average at best - is this fair? How does he compare with other drummers of his time and, perhaps more importantly, Pete Best?
Cheers
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shmad
And That's A Start
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Post by shmad on Mar 4, 2011 21:58:01 GMT
I think the one of the main parts of Ringo's drumming that is so special is the fact that he always plays with the singer and the feel of the song/lyrics. In Anthology he points this out and gives the example of the song A Day In The Life: "Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire.. Bom-DA-Bom". When he was with the band they all talked about how they could move into a jam session or a song all together without saying a word to each other, they just all knew what the other was thinking. Also the other boys have stated numerous times that Ringo's tempo is rock solid and that he could hold a beat all day.
Personally, I love Ringo's drumming for its simplicity. I don't mean the drumming is easy or boring, it's just not too showy like a lot of bands. When you listen to the Who, for example, the drums are extraordinary but don't always make the song any better, or they steal your attention from/don't really complement the song. Ringo's drumming on the other hand ties everything together perfectly and enhances the song.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 6, 2011 20:22:08 GMT
This has been discussed at length elsewhere on the forum. It's worth searching for the thread and having a read.
It's becoming a cliche but without doubt he was the perfect drummer for The Beatles. There are technically better drummers without doubt e.g. Bill Bruford, Alan White, Michael Giles, John Bonham.........the list would be endless. However it's difficult to see how they would have improved on Ringo's contributions without altering the balance of the song.
In terms of comparing to Pete Best, (and Pete Best is the only true comparison you could possibly make with Ringo as they played the same songs in the same band) Ringo is miles away techincally the better drummer. I know I wasn't there in Hamburg and the Cavern when Pete was playing, and many people who were there will tell you Pete was better, but memories fade however recordings don't.
I think if you listen to the Decca tapes then it is so obvious that Pete is holding the band back because he is so regimented and stiff. Also, the real give away for me was Parlophones demo of Love Me Do with Pete playing. Just compare it Ringo's which swings and the tempo is constant thoughout and more importantly each time the song starts up again after a stop Ringo starts at the same tempo he finished the last section. Pete's version starts slow speeds up, stops, comes in slow, speeds up etc and definitely doesn't swing. Just have a listen and see if you agree.
In short, Ringo was a much better drummer than Pete but there are many drummers far and a way leagues ahead of Ringo in terms of technical ability. However I truely believe Ringo was the best drummer for The Beatles.
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lylem
And That's A Start
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Post by lylem on Mar 9, 2011 21:28:14 GMT
Ringo may have lacked the chops of Ginger Baker, or the showmanship of Keith Moon, but for a song-oriented band like The Beatles, he was the perfect choice.
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Post by spaniardintheberks on Mar 10, 2011 13:16:57 GMT
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think I agree . . . Ringo wasn't the flashiest sticksman, but if he had been any different the Beatles' songs would have been . . . thrown off kilter I guess.
It really was about the songs, not virtuosity (not to suggest they couldn't be) - band before the individual in a sense, and I think that says a lot about why they were so successful.
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Post by The End on Mar 10, 2011 14:35:37 GMT
It's funny how Charlie Watts' drumming prowess never seems to be questioned and, in my opinion he was at best merely functional especially in the Stones' pre '66 material - the timing of which is all over the place on some tracks (listen to I'm Free, for example). Aside from a few tracks, such as Paint It Black, he mostly plays nothing flashier than 4 beats in the bar and doesn't hit the hi-hat at the same time as the snare, which always struck me as a bit odd!
What do you guys think?
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 11, 2011 19:31:55 GMT
I totally agree. How has Charlie watts escaped any criticism about his drumming for nearly 50 years and made a career out of it? I too have wondered for a long time why he is not capable of playing a four to the beat bar on the hi-hat. He is actually a worse drummer than Keith Richards is a guitar player and that really is saying something as Richards is pretty crap! Without doubt the most overrated guitar player in the history of music.
Ringo is streets ahead of watts in terms of technical ability, style and originality
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Post by The End on Mar 14, 2011 14:41:51 GMT
And strangely enough the Stones also sacked their drummer and you never hear about Watts being the luckiest man in the world do you!? I think his name was Tony Chapman, he actually replaced Mick Avery (later of The Kinks) when he left.
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 21, 2011 2:36:29 GMT
I for one think that Charlie is an awesome drummer. As for not hitting the hats at the same time as the snare,,,its just him and its just his style. It doesnt detract from the music or his time keeping. Al mentioned a few tunes where Charlies tempo isnt up to snuff. Ringo had these moments too. I also think Ringo is an awesome drummer. I think he's technically a little better than what we hear. He has his own style too with him being left handed and all. His fills are weird, but thats just him.
Lol, I think Mick Avery was awesome too.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 21, 2011 13:04:24 GMT
To describe Charlie watts as 'awesome' I feel is somewhat over the top! What do you base this on?
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Post by The End on Mar 21, 2011 14:38:05 GMT
I for one think that Charlie is an awesome drummer. As for not hitting the hats at the same time as the snare,,,its just him and its just his style. It doesnt detract from the music or his time keeping. Al mentioned a few tunes where Charlies tempo isnt up to snuff. Ringo had these moments too. I also think Ringo is an awesome drummer. I think he's technically a little better than what we hear. He has his own style too with him being left handed and all. His fills are weird, but thats just him. Lol, I think Mick Avery was awesome too. Blimey - welcome back TK - I haven't seen you around these parts for ages! With regards to Ringo's 'moments' I can really only think of one occasion where his timing was off - "Boys". That track noticeably slows down, but then he was actually singing and playing drums live and I believe it was recorded in just one take (correct me if I'm wrong there!). Were there any other examples you (or anyone else) can think of?
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 22, 2011 15:11:35 GMT
To describe Charlie watts as 'awesome' I feel is somewhat over the top! What do you base this on? The fact that he's been the rock solid beat for one of the greatest bands ever for the last 50 years should be proof enough, but i'll site a few instances where I think he shines. The beginning of 'Start Me Up'. The way he plays around with that 4/4 beat is amazing. So amazing that many people state he messed up. I dont think so. The thunderous fills and groove on 'Heartbreaker'. The infamous groove on 'Anybody Seen My Baby'. The way he plays around on the hi hats is amazing. If you listen to some Stones tunes and just listen to Charlie, he has these hat splashes all over the place. Its neat as hell and tough to play. The fact that he does play jazz (pedestrian at best in my opinion, but some nontheless). I dont know. I think he's steady as a rock. I love his playing.
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 22, 2011 15:17:33 GMT
I for one think that Charlie is an awesome drummer. As for not hitting the hats at the same time as the snare,,,its just him and its just his style. It doesnt detract from the music or his time keeping. Al mentioned a few tunes where Charlies tempo isnt up to snuff. Ringo had these moments too. I also think Ringo is an awesome drummer. I think he's technically a little better than what we hear. He has his own style too with him being left handed and all. His fills are weird, but thats just him. Lol, I think Mick Avery was awesome too. Blimey - welcome back TK - I haven't seen you around these parts for ages! With regards to Ringo's 'moments' I can really only think of one occasion where his timing was off - "Boys". That track noticeably slows down, but then he was actually singing and playing drums live and I believe it was recorded in just one take (correct me if I'm wrong there!). Were there any other examples you (or anyone else) can think of? Hey Al. Yeah, its been a long time. Hope all is well with you. Anyways, i'm kind of in the process of disecting the Beatles right now on the other board. Just some instances off the top of my head right now is 'Thank You Girl' (he speeds up at the end). I think he rushes his fills in 'From Me To You'. I also believe it was pretty well known that 'You Wont See Me' and 'The Night Before' are over the place tempo wise, but I havent listened to them to really say one way or another. As I continue to listen to them, i'll site some more if I come across them. Peace.
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Post by The End on Mar 23, 2011 14:46:12 GMT
I'm very good thanks mate! Hope all's well your way!
With regards to Thank You Girl - wasn't that ending an edit piece?
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 24, 2011 5:16:12 GMT
You would know better than me. It probably was, but its the first i've heard that. If so, that makes sense.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 24, 2011 12:44:51 GMT
To describe Charlie watts as 'awesome' I feel is somewhat over the top! What do you base this on? The fact that he's been the rock solid beat for one of the greatest bands ever for the last 50 years should be proof enough, but i'll site a few instances where I think he shines. Keith Richards was in the same band for the same time and he is the worst guitar player the Stones have ever had! I take your point about Charlie Watts and that you can cite some examples of nice playing but for me he just doesn't stack up to any number of drummers I could just mention off the top of my head; Simon Kirke, Bill Bruford, Alan White, Michael Giles, John Bonham, Ringo. For me it's what they have contributed to the song like a guitar player or keyboard player would contribute. Not so much in how technical but playing what's right and providing feel and mood for a song.
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Post by Bobber on Mar 24, 2011 13:20:51 GMT
With regards to Thank You Girl - wasn't that ending an edit piece? It is. You can hear it: it's speeding up and the echo on the voices is different after 1.39.
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Post by The End on Mar 24, 2011 14:28:21 GMT
Ah, I thought so Regarding the Rolling Stones' "I'm Free", I absolutely love this track but the off-timing always bugged the hell out of me - so I made an edit with the timing fixed! If anyone would like a copy please give me a shout
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 25, 2011 7:04:06 GMT
I take your point about Charlie Watts and that you can cite some examples of nice playing but for me he just doesn't stack up to any number of drummers I could just mention off the top of my head; Simon Kirke, Bill Bruford, Alan White, Michael Giles, John Bonham, Ringo. For me it's what they have contributed to the song like a guitar player or keyboard player would contribute. Not so much in how technical but playing what's right and providing feel and mood for a song. Ironically I was just listening to 'She's So Cold' and enjoyed Charlies drumming immensely. I think he absolutly plays for their songs. I love his feel and style. You state you like drummers that provide feel and mood and then list Bruford as one of your choices? I'm not making the connection. I love his playing with YES and Earthworks but the guy has no feel at all in my opinion. He's nothing but calculated. Machine like. I have never really gotten into King Crimson enough to base a solid opinion on Giles drumming (or Brufords in that group for that matter) so I cant say. I love Simon Kirke. I just dont know if i'd rather have him in my band over Charlie or Ringo. i just dont know. Bonzo was Bonzo. How can you argue. I love Alan Whites drumming too, but I like his YES stuff way better than his Lennon stuff. I'd rather hear Andy Nemark on johns stuff. Sorry I rambled. I guess it just comes down to me liking Charlie more than you. Lol. And yes, I like other drummers way better than Charlie, but I think he plays for the song more so than anything else.
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Mar 25, 2011 7:06:03 GMT
Ah, I thought so Regarding the Rolling Stones' "I'm Free", I absolutely love this track but the off-timing always bugged the hell out of me - so I made an edit with the timing fixed! If anyone would like a copy please give me a shout Yeah, post that up Al. I'd love to hear it. I suppose I need to go back and relisten to Thank You Girl too.
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