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Post by johnny103068 on Jan 30, 2016 19:00:56 GMT
On the subject of these two drummers wasn't there a way this could have been resolved? I think Pete's termination could have been handled with a little class and grace but by the same token if the Beatles were going to take that next step they had to get the drummer and Ringo was that man. John Lennon was quoted that Pete's drum playing was too conventional well so was Ringo but he had a little flavor to his drumming and that was lacking in Pete but Ringo had that look The Beatles needed.
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Post by Mr Kite on Jan 30, 2016 19:45:55 GMT
Looking at it in hindsight I guess sacking a drummer from a band that would become the biggest and without doubt greatest band that would forever to put music together in the history of Music is a bit harsh .
Is there a good way to sack someone in any walk of life , be they a drummer or a window cleaner ? No . Did George Martin not have a clue about his job and just did`nt like Pete`s tie ? No . Did The Beatles and Epstein think that they would become what they became ? No . Was Pete better than Ringo ? No .
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 31, 2016 13:49:38 GMT
The FACT is if Pete was any good and they liked him he would have still been the drummer, he wasn't so case closed. Would it have been any better if one night in Aug.'62, John, Paul, and George would have told Pete, "you suck"?
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Post by Amadeus on Feb 3, 2016 0:14:52 GMT
Listen to the Decca 'album', then listen to 'Please Please Me' album. The proof is in the partridge in a pear tree.
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Post by Bongo on Feb 7, 2016 3:33:51 GMT
Also there was times Pete Best didn’t bother showing up for gigs, which pretty well killed it for him as the other boys were serious about making it! Luckily Richard Starkey stood in for him.
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Post by dennis1960 on Sept 29, 2016 20:17:49 GMT
Besides the difference in drumming ability, according to George's quotes in "George Harrison Behind the Locked Door", Pete rarely hung out with the guys after shows and was frequently moody and withdrawn. He just wasn't outgoing as the rest and much interested in being part of the group socially, whereas Ringo was the exact opposite. Band chemistry is much bigger than just what happens on stage. The fact that Ringo was also a better drummer made the choice even easier. Could the band have handled Pete's sacking better? Well, dumping a band member is never an easy task...even in amateur bands it's an ugly scene...add a manager who looks after the best interests of the band and the possibility for a nasty firing increases. Shoot, look at how Pink Floyd fired Syd Barrett. They just decided one day to not pick him up on the way to a show...ouch
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 30, 2016 18:03:40 GMT
Syd had to go though. They had no choice. Pete had to go too but I suppose the timing could have been better i.e. sooner. And of course John, Paul and George where cowards about - which John admitted.
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Post by dennis1960 on Sept 30, 2016 19:41:00 GMT
Syd had to go though. They had no choice. Pete had to go too but I suppose the timing could have been better i.e. sooner. And of course John, Paul and George where cowards about - which John admitted. Agreed. The 1st Pink Floyd album is my favorite but Syd definitely had to go Unfortunately both Syd & Pete seem to have gotten caught up in a passive/aggressive firing. I think it is interesting in that it's comparable to the way King Crimson "fired" their violinist David Cross in 1974. They finished a US tour and the other 3 band members agreed David had to go. They notified their manager who said he'd take care of everything. In reality he did nothing and Cross was just not notified when the band next met up to work on the following album. He was notified of his firing by the press. It took a couple decades for the band to eventually find out what actually happened and reconcile with David. Ugly!
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 30, 2016 19:59:45 GMT
So, you are a King Crimson fan! Wait until Mr Kite gets hold of this!
I'm glad to say I finally got to see King Crimson on their most recent tour in the U.K. Amazing performance! I've seen 21st Century Schizoid Band a few time (all original members bar Fripp - and the bloke out of Level 42). That too was one of the best live music experiences of my life.
I didn't really know much about the David Cross sacking until now. The difference is, of course, that both Cross and Barrett where already in established bands who had 'made it'. Best was dumped on the verge of making it.
I really have to say that I just don't get why Barrett is held in so much of a legendary status. I find him musically mediocre at best especially in comparison to what came after he went.
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 30, 2016 20:06:16 GMT
Always happy to be put in my place (ha! As if that would ever happen!) but I truly believe that if Barrett hadn't been forced out we would not be talking about Pink Floyd now. Waters, Mason and Wright appeared to hold him in some God-like status.
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Post by ROCKY on Sept 30, 2016 22:06:47 GMT
Here's something to ponder: If Ringo wasn't available, say he didn't want to leave RSATH, who would the Beatles have picked, or do you think they would have stuck it out with Pete?
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Post by dennis1960 on Sept 30, 2016 22:16:19 GMT
Always happy to be put in my place (ha! As if that would ever happen!) but I truly believe that if Barrett hadn't been forced out we would not be talking about Pink Floyd now. Waters, Mason and Wright appeared to hold him in some God-like status. I love Syd and Piper at the Gates of Dawn, The Madcap Laughs & Barrett but I agree with you. If Syd had hung on his behaviour likely would have dragged the whole band down into obscurity by late '68 with no manager or label willing to put up with his eccentricities. The 1st album would probably be regarded as a charming piece of Brit psychedelia but little more. Perhaps the Waters/Mason/Wright deification of Syd has to do with the fact that as the sole songwriter and primary vocalist, they realize that without him as the main focal point of the band they would have remained the Architectural Abdabs and been a footnote rather than a headline in rock history
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 30, 2016 22:27:47 GMT
But without Syd they flourished. It's like they where allowed to breathe. I'm far from the biggest Floyd expert but it seems to me that Syd was quite controlling.
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 30, 2016 22:33:48 GMT
Here's something to ponder: If Ringo wasn't available, say he didn't want to leave RSATH, who would the Beatles have picked, or do you think they would have stuck it out with Pete? Great question Rocky! One I've never had to try and answer before. I think they still would have gone with someone else. Johnny Hutch will tell you to this day that Epstein asked him to join permanently. Other drummers were allegedly approached too. I firmly believe that the band wanted Ringo but Epstein was covering all bases just in case Ringo turned them down.
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Post by dennis1960 on Sept 30, 2016 23:20:44 GMT
But without Syd they flourished. It's like they where allowed to breathe. I'm far from the biggest Floyd expert but it seems to me that Syd was quite controlling. Yes...and Breathe they did! I think it was sink or swim. From biographies I read they realized the days of writing singles for Top of the Pops was over and they had to find a new approach. Thank goodness they struggled through and made it work without Syd
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Post by brewmaster on Oct 1, 2016 9:36:12 GMT
That is a very good question. I think they would have had difficulty. Remember, the main reason that they were replacing Pete, was that his drumming had been criticized by their record producers [Bert Kaempfert and George Martin]. Finding another Liverpool drummer who would have been studio capable could have been a problem. There were lots of good, live drummers on the scene, but, by all accounts Pete was a good live drummer, just not good enough for the demands of the studio. Would any of the others have fitted the bill? Also, they would have wanted someone who fitted in with the rest of them. Possibly Chris Curtis, of The Searchers would have been technically good enough, but probably would not have wanted to make the jump. In the event, Ringo was the ideal choice.
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