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Post by mrmustard on Jan 11, 2016 0:30:26 GMT
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 11, 2016 2:16:06 GMT
I would have to say he was one of the many lost heroes of the early days of the Beatles and only has his place now in the Beatles Archive of the Oblivion as a footnote.
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Post by pothos on Jan 11, 2016 10:41:01 GMT
I think that early Liverpool scene was just staggering. So many interesting figures. All just young kids dreaming.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 11, 2016 10:46:57 GMT
Specifically though, what did he contribute to the Beatles success? I really don't know.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 11, 2016 14:03:56 GMT
It says he taught them about blues & ndash (whatever that is?). But I'm pretty sure there were guys in other groups, that they were hanging around with, that knew more about that than Harold Philips did. Like I said he was probably nothing more than being in the right place at just the right time.
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Post by Amadeus on Jan 11, 2016 18:43:39 GMT
It says he taught them about blues & ndash (whatever that is?). But I'm pretty sure there were guys in other groups, that they were hanging around with, that knew more about that than Harold Philips did. Like I said he was probably nothing more than being in the right place at just the right time. Same comment. As far as being overlooked because of race, they loved and fully acknowledged all the black influences in their music, from the old blues guys to the ones like Little Richard and then the Motown stuff. And they played with Billy Preston. Black people may not have loomed large in their story because there must not have been that many in that scene besides Woodbine and Derry Wilkie. But the main thing is that The Beatles very quickly surpassed all the other groups in Liverpool in progress and ability very early on, black or white, partly because of the sheer variety of music they decided to draw from.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 11, 2016 20:20:54 GMT
When Woodbine started out jazz was the big thing, in fact the Cavern was a jazz venue before R&R over took it by packing in the crowds. I'm just taking it for granted most of your jazz players were black back then. Your white guys were called beatniks (remember that? lol) But you don't really read or hear too much about that Liverpool scene. Woodbine was just one of a dying breed I guess.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 11, 2016 20:29:38 GMT
It says he taught them about blues & ndash (whatever that is?). But I'm pretty sure there were guys in other groups, that they were hanging around with, that knew more about that than Harold Philips did. Like I said he was probably nothing more than being in the right place at just the right time. This is the point I'm trying to make. The article is basically saying he was written out of Beatles history after he had been so instrumental in their early years. You've seriously got to question that. I mean Yer Blues is one of my favourite Beatles songs but they where really so far away from being a blues band. Their weakest facet being improvisation. If he did introduce them to blues then he didn't do a very good job at influencing them to any great extent.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 11, 2016 20:35:39 GMT
I know what you mean, if you read the article the way it is written it seems to say the Beatles were bad guys not to mention Lord Woodbine as their BIG influence in their stardom. Aw C'mon... everybody knows it was Pete Best! lol
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Post by brewmaster on Jan 13, 2016 10:50:41 GMT
In my opinion that Independant article stretched the facts quite a bit. Since it was co-written by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, this does not surprise me. The Jazz and Blues scenes in Liverpool back then were very separate activities. The interview quoted " The black Liverpudlian band-leader George Dixon remembers the boys watching him and the guitarist Odie Taylor at the White House pub. The Nigerian-Liverpudlian singer Ramon Sugar Deen recalls the way their music developed: "I heard them jamming in the Cavern club and the rhythm had changed. They'd got some chords off Odie." Seems a stretch to me. So many people try to attach themselves to the legend of The Beatles, often with little justification. I remember Lord Woodbine and he had about as much real significance to the Beatles' story, as the barman in the Grapes pub!
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 13, 2016 13:16:38 GMT
That was basically my thoughts Brewmaster. Thank you for clarifying.
There are so many people that purport to be or are reported to be important to The Beatles. Lord Woodbine is another one in a long line. It just so happens he shared a van ride and was on a famous photo with them on.
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Post by brewmaster on Jan 13, 2016 18:24:00 GMT
The most charitable thing to say about Lord Woodbine was that he was "a character" Alan Williams seemed to surround himself with such folks, including an Oliver Hardy lookalike named Charlie, who was used to promote the various [failed] business ventures around the Blue Angel. There was another "character" called Basil who frequented the Cavern. All in all, of no significance to the history of Merseybeat.
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henryj
For A Number Of Things
Posts: 792
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Post by henryj on Jan 16, 2016 12:38:41 GMT
So where did Lord Woodbine get the idea to name himself for a cigarette?
Hint: It tastes good like a cigarette should.
And I don't even smoke!
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Post by brewmaster on Jan 16, 2016 15:58:47 GMT
He was a chain smoker.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 16, 2016 16:05:47 GMT
He probably reeked of Woodbine scent, probably could smell him five minutes before he showed up. lol
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Post by oldswanrory on Nov 29, 2016 18:56:39 GMT
Woodbine gave the Beatles work in his clubs, backing Janice the stripper in one.
It was Woodbine who made the first contact with Bruno in the kaiserkeller, he also financed the Beatles trip to hamburg in 1960.
He was a very good musician and songwriter. Probably the first songwriter they had come into contact with.
The guys learnt a lot from the black musicians in Liverpool who they would follow around as early as 1958. They watched them play Jazz, Blues, Steel pan. They were learning chords and taking valuable lessons for a variaty of music. Clever boys doing their homework and having a desire to learn. It was black musicians who taught them how to play Chuck Berry style chords. However, the books tend to forget this.
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Post by brewmaster on Dec 2, 2016 18:31:25 GMT
Ant I'm really interested in this. I know you are very concerned with getting the history right. Apart from the quotes in the original newspaper article, is there any other source? Can you point to any of the countless interviews John, George and Paul have given to support that assertion about learning guitar?
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