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Post by mrmustard on Jun 21, 2013 21:59:59 GMT
Anyhow, after John survived the attempt on his life by John Hinckley Jr, in Dec '80, he realised that you only live once and he was bloody well going to have his egg and chips! Ha! That's right we can't mention his name can we! I wonder what Yoko made of the egg and chips! I reckon she's having the odd chip on the sly at every given opportunity now. And I bet she has vinegar on it too! Or Jamaican love juice!
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Post by ROCKY on Jun 22, 2013 0:00:49 GMT
Maybe she's still stealing them from George who got over his bout with that dreaded C word.
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 22, 2013 15:50:12 GMT
That's a ridiculous statement! Everyone knows egg and chips does not form part of a macrobiotic diet. I do think if he would have toured, the live voice would have returned to its near former glory. In the studio he recorded some great vocals - Woman Is The Nigger Of The World, Mother, Jealous Guy - to name few) but as I'm sure you will agree Amadeus, a great studio singer does not make a great live singer. Amen. I know that's true. I'm just trying to think of an example. Anyhow, after John survived the attempt on his life by John Hinckley Jr, in Dec '80, he realised that you only live once and he was bloody well going to have his egg and chips! [/quote] Thought of one. Macca was a studio performer in the '80's and when he hit the road for the first time after 'Flowers In The Dirt' his voice, at least according to his GET BACK film and 'Tripping The Live Fantastic, was so ragged and not in a good way. By the time Back In The US and Red Square came around, his voice is 100 times better and stronger. No?
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 22, 2013 17:40:41 GMT
Amen. I know that's true. I'm just trying to think of an example. Anyhow, after John survived the attempt on his life by John Hinckley Jr, in Dec '80, he realised that you only live once and he was bloody well going to have his egg and chips! Thought of one. Macca was a studio performer in the '80's and when he hit the road for the first time after 'Flowers In The Dirt' his voice, at least according to his GET BACK film and 'Tripping The Live Fantastic, was so ragged and not in a good way. By the time Back In The US and Red Square came around, his voice is 100 times better and stronger. No? [/quote] Yes, this is what I mean. What about my original question though. Why did John go for double of everything in his band and Paul didn't?
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 22, 2013 18:10:36 GMT
Why did John go for double of everything in his band and Paul didn't? Is there a real answer to that? My first guess is the Phil Spector influence. Paul toyed with that idea for his Rockestra.
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klang
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 65
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Post by klang on Jun 26, 2013 14:41:25 GMT
Regardless of what Lennon's provacations in this area,,"Double Fantasy" was most certainly a well executed pop recording.I always liked the double tracking of his voice,going all the way back to things like "I Should Have Known Better".As far as the Spector reference,HIS studio style duly influenced many many things to the point where some artists may still be employing methods he instituted without full or possibly ANY recognition that it was Spector who was their creator.A true pioneer without whom works such as "Sgt. Pepper" and "Pet Sounds" may well have not existed in their populalry known forms,which brings me to THIS brain tickler..What if Spector had produced "Sgt. Pepper"?
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 26, 2013 17:11:11 GMT
Regardless of what Lennon's provacations in this area,,"Double Fantasy" was most certainly a well executed pop recording.I always liked the double tracking of his voice,going all the way back to things like "I Should Have Known Better".As far as the Spector reference,HIS studio style duly influenced many many things to the point where some artists may still be employing methods he instituted without full or possibly ANY recognition that it was Spector who was their creator.A true pioneer without whom works such as "Sgt. Pepper" and "Pet Sounds" may well have not existed in their populalry known forms,which brings me to THIS brain tickler..What if Spector had produced "Sgt. Pepper"? Klang, can you describe what recording and production techniques George Martin employed that were influenced by Phil Spector? Please feel free to go into as much technical detail as possible. If Phil Spector had produced Sgt Pepper it would have been one of the worst decisions in musical history. Phil Spector isn't even half the producer George Martin is. I find his production style overrated and self indulgent. Something which does not apply to George Martin.
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Post by ROCKY on Jun 27, 2013 13:06:06 GMT
Regardless of what Lennon's provacations in this area,,"Double Fantasy" was most certainly a well executed pop recording.I always liked the double tracking of his voice,going all the way back to things like "I Should Have Known Better".As far as the Spector reference,HIS studio style duly influenced many many things to the point where some artists may still be employing methods he instituted without full or possibly ANY recognition that it was Spector who was their creator.A true pioneer without whom works such as "Sgt. Pepper" and "Pet Sounds" may well have not existed in their populalry known forms,which brings me to THIS brain tickler..What if Spector had produced "Sgt. Pepper"? Klang, can you describe what recording and production techniques George Martin employed that were influenced by Phil Spector? Please feel free to go into as much technical detail as possible. If Phil Spector had produced Sgt Pepper it would have been one of the worst decisions in musical history. Phil Spector isn't even half the producer George Martin is. I find his production style overrated and self indulgent. Something which does not apply to George Martin. In Spector's defense, some of his 50's and early 60's records he produced were perfect. The Righteous Bros. comes to mind, but was he right for the Beatles the answer is no.
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klang
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 65
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Post by klang on Jun 27, 2013 13:46:17 GMT
Brian Wilson has always cited Spector's "Wall Of Sound" as being primary influence on texture of "Pet Sounds".The Beatles,Paul in particular,specifically cited the sounds of THAT one as the chief influence for the texture of "Pepper".Therefore,Spector was the first cog in that particular cycle of influence.Secondly,I wasn't implying that "Pepper" would have been better or even as good if Spector had produced it,I was merely postulating.But I do firmly agree with you,Mustard on the point that Phil was indeed NOT nearly as technically competent MUSICALLY as Sir George.After all,as well as the whole Wall of Sound experiment was a resounding success,sometimes I get the feeling that Spector may have had a bit of ol' lady luck on his side as his approach of throwing scores of instrumentalists to record nearly all their parts simultaneously WAS a bit of a shot in the dark.It could just have easily backfired.At the time,it may have seemed to many in the industry to be yet another of Specotr's eccentric ideations....
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 27, 2013 14:53:24 GMT
I think Paul was impressed by the depth of Wilson's writing and the non-rock and roll instrumentation.
Spector's idea was to fill up every conceivable space in the audio spectrum for an all out sonic assault. And usually in mono. Which might have been good for AM radio at the time over small/cheap speakers which was where most pop music was consumed from in those days. He was sort of anticipating the 'loudness' wars of recent times.
Brian Wilson I think did a more tasteful 'wall of sound'. I love Pet Sounds but I never really liked the sound of it until the stereo mix was done in '96. Then it totally opened up the sound and gave everything in the mix some space. Sheesh! For a modern stereo, I need the stereo mix. For a small transistor radio, the mono version is good.
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 27, 2013 17:10:41 GMT
The problem with Spector was that he believed he was more important than the artist he was producing. He had to put his own stamp on everything he produced rather than what was right for the song. The same cant be said for George Martin who let a song breathe unlike Spector who crammed in as much as he could. I think Spector had preconceived ideas of how a song should sound BEFORE he actually heard it!
Also, to refer to George Martin as 'just an arranger' is just plain ignorant and disrespectful to a fellow colleague.
BTW - did he go down or get off with murder? I can't remember!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 18:12:24 GMT
Mr M
This is in answer to your question about Spector's murder trial (and re-trial). It's lifted entirely from his bio.
"He went on to write and produce music until 2003, when he was arrested in connection with the fatal shooting of actress Lana Clarkson. After a panicked 911 call from Spector's driver, police discovered Clarkson's body at the producer's mansion in Alhambra, California. She had been shot dead, with a gunshot wound through the roof of her mouth. On November 20, 2003, Spector was indicted for Clarkson's murder.
A year later, Spector was ordered to stand trial in Los Angeles. During the proceedings, Spector would arrive at court wearing various wigs which became a hot topic on internet blogs. The case itself came to a head on September 26, 2007, but jurors could not reach a definite verdict. The murder case was declared a mistrial.
Proceedings for a murder retrial began in October of 2008, and Spector was found guilty of second-degree murder in 2009. He was sentenced to 19 years in North Kern State Prison in California. He was also ordered to pay $17,000 to Donna Clarkson, Lana Clarkson's mother, for funeral expenses. Throughout his incarceration, Spector has not been allowed to wear any type of wig."
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 27, 2013 19:01:14 GMT
Thanks Arthurlee.
It didn't seem that long ago! Funny thing is, the only thing I remember about trial was the wigs!
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Post by ROCKY on Jun 27, 2013 23:27:53 GMT
Phil was always a little strange. lol I remember all the weird stuff that was going on with the Rock & Roll lp and Phil hiding the master tapes from John.
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 27, 2013 23:40:50 GMT
Phil was always a little strange. lol I remember all the weird stuff that was going on with the Rock & Roll lp and Phil hiding the master tapes from John. Yes, he effectively stole them! Phoned Lennon up months later saying 'I got the tapes' Holding him to some sort of weird ransom. And in the end (!), how much of the album did he actually produce? Not that much in the final analysis I bet. Even Ringo has stated that he doesn't remember Spector being there that much on the sessions for Plastic Ono Band. And in all honesty does it sound like Spector had much of a hand in the album?
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 28, 2013 0:10:00 GMT
I wondered about that. George's album sounds like a hurricane. The only Spectorization I hear on Plastic Ono Band is the slap back echo on most of the drums and vocals. Otherwise, it's hard to do a wall of sound when there's only 3 instruments on each song, if that.
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henryj
For A Number Of Things
Posts: 792
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Post by henryj on Jun 28, 2013 2:03:02 GMT
Random thoughts about Phil Spector:
It would have been interesting to hear a Phil Spector production of just that atonal orchestral part of “A Day in the Life.”
Spector was eccentric indeed. Some reports state that the reason he withheld the release of Lennon’s Rock and Roll album was that he said he had the missing Nixon Watergate tapes, and he was processing them to make sense of them. Except all that reverb he put on stuff would serve to make it less clear.
Spector maintained his innocence. I suppose Sir Paul would probably say that if Spector were innocent, then Spector is serving 19 to life for what he did to “The Long and Winding Road.”
Like Rocky, I happen to LIKE “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling,” the Righteous Bros. Phil Spector production. I thought Spector’s production sounded like the wind, but tonal. What Amadeus posted about George’s album sounding like a hurricane makes perfect sense to me.
And like Amadeus again, the Beach Boys’ stereo Pet Sounds album does sound better than the mono. Except for “God Only Knows,” because the stereo version has Carl starting off the vocal counterpoint trio at the end, and Brian’s voice, as heard on the same part in the mono version, was much stronger at the time. Carl sounds rather wimpy in the stereo version.
Boy, this thread sure got hijacked, didn’t it?
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Post by ROCKY on Jun 28, 2013 2:41:27 GMT
Boy, this thread sure got hijacked, didn’t it? Yeah, I'm waiting for someone to bring up Kevin Bacon. lol
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 28, 2013 20:58:08 GMT
I wondered about that. George's album sounds like a hurricane. The only Spectorization I hear on Plastic Ono Band is the slap back echo on most of the drums and vocals. Otherwise, it's hard to do a wall of sound when there's only 3 instruments on each song, if that. I don't believe, in the final analysis!, that Spector had much to do with the album. Either that or Lennon was the only musician Spector ever worked with that could exert so much control over the producer.
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 28, 2013 21:36:18 GMT
That slap back echo sounds like Spector. I'm certain that Lennon was stroppy enough at the time to 'tell' Phil how they're going to play it. But in a year he would be a little more relaxed because Imagine has a leetle beet more Spectorization to it.
Hmm...I Don't Wanna Be A Soldier actually sounds like Spector.
George's album. The song that works best with the 'wall of sound' is Let It Down. I love that song. So DAMN big! But George Martin could've produced All Things Must Pass and the sound would've been a bit more timeless.
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