ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 7, 2013 14:26:02 GMT
Keep up Mr K, please do, the Golden Age is from the mid-50s to the end of the 60s.....the one you missed. You know that, I've told you before. The Mothers of Invention's first LP was released in '66. '66 is before '69. That surely can't be too difficult to understand, can it?
Quick point: this is a 'BEATLES' web-site, isn't it? It seems incredible that many of its 'members' should take such delight in belittling the era of the group! I mean belittling the era of Mod (i.e. the early 60s) in favour of the lesser years after The Beatles. Doh! You're on the wrong site, fellas, surely?
And, mrmustard, while the life and times of some Prog nonsense from some awful year, with awful clothes and awful taste, will categorically not be on my radar (thank God), I absolutely and completely know and understand the era that really matters, from skiffle to Abbey Road (i.e. the era of The Beatles), far, far more than you ever will.....it's my business to.
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 7, 2013 14:42:55 GMT
And, mrmustard, while the life and times of some Prog nonsense from some awful year, with awful clothes and awful taste, will categorically not be on my radar (thank God), I absolutely and completely know and understand the era that really matters, from skiffle to Abbey Road (i.e. the era of The Beatles), far, far more than you ever will.....it's my business to. Well based on what you have submitted so far you are sadly lacking in many areas. You don't know me and I don't know you. For that I will be eternally grateful.
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 7, 2013 14:44:55 GMT
Oh, and thanks for the info rdnzl. Whilst I'll be extra cautious, and I'll be reading the reviews VERY CAREFULLY, I might take a punt on those two releases when they come out. Anything over £15 each though and I'm outta there, so no 4-CD box sets please!
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 7, 2013 14:48:40 GMT
I know the subject, mrm, that's all. Prog - no. The Falklands War - no. Brain surgery - no. Britain; its politics, social history, art, cinema, popular music of the 50s and 60s - yes. Statement of fact, I should broaden my horizons! Don't get bitter about it.
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 7, 2013 15:07:27 GMT
You wreak of bitterness and arrogance Ranger. You come across as though your opinion is the only one that matters. It doesn't matter. It makes no sense and has no basis in musical appreciation.
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 7, 2013 17:43:40 GMT
I will keep it up . Now let me see . 50`s to 69 are the golden era. 50`s are crap in fact all music was crap until The Beatles came along . Just my opinion . Freak Out is a concept album is`nt it ? As most Zappa albums it has all kinda music going on . It has Doo Wop on yes , but I gotta say it`s a piss take ( comedy, satire ) Myself do not like it one bit . Hense I don`t own it . I had a mate in the 70`s who had all Zappa and used to play his latest album . I just bought the ones I liked. Which brings me to my question How the hell did you get to buy Zappa albums , most importanly When ? How popular was Zappa In 66 in the U.K. ( didn`t chart did it ?) Next question . How old were you in 66 ? I can`t Imagine you having your Mod albums and Freak Out . Anyhow . Your quick point . I have never belittled the 60`s ever ( I was born in that era !) It`s the decade in which gave us The Beatles , The Who. Led Zeppelin , Yes , Bob Dylan , Pink Floyd , Neil Young , The Stones , Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix , Prog Rock bands a plenty. Freak Out is a Prog album is`nt it ? ( you bought a Prog album) Yep , this is a Beatle Forum but if may notice at the top of this bit it say`s Other Bands And Artists . I don`t like Mod music thats true . It`s Crap . My opinion . You don`t like Rawwwk as you like to call it . But most if not all music we are disscussing was all from the Blues in the 30`s Most bands , even the Beatles got inspired from American music . Blues is Rock without the Amps Zep are doing the blues with Amps 50`s popular music was controlled by the grown ups and as long as it wasn`t anything to risque It was ok . Thank christ though The Beatles never did any of that Doo Wop crap . That what it is . My opinion . I love Neil Young , I think he is a God ( I have a few ) I almost own every album he is on . But there is one album I don`t have of his . Neil Young And The Shocking Pinks , Everybody`s Rockin Why . It`s crap . Doo Wop crap . My opinion . Freak Out is crap ... There I said it . But it has elements of Prog , Psychedelic , Rock and blues . Which as the 60`s grew up in music , film and Art it did have an influence on bands that turned pop into Rock and the wonderful Prog Rock. Not even a wiff of Mod music . So then . I refrain How come you ended up with Zappa albums ? How old are you ? Just answer the questions ! I just think you you posted that you give away your "Zappa" albums just get over a point that you hate everything if you can`t do a silly dance to it . I also don`t like Country And Western ( sorry Maria M ), or Jazz. Or Elvis .
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Apr 8, 2013 0:16:29 GMT
I'm 51. My musical interests began with The Beatles. My mom had "Meet The Beatles" and "Introducing The Beatles", and I played them until they became worthless and uncollectible. I was only four years old when "Revolver" came out and I saw it and convinced my mom to buy it for me. Their catalog was everything to me. I was probably TOO interested in them. I wouldn't listen to anything else until I was a teenager and I discovered recreational drugs* and The Who, The Grateful Dead, Dylan, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin , Yes, ELP, King Crimson and many other bands that fit in with the get high and listen to music thing that my peers were into. I left The Beatles alone for a while, and one day I heard the white album at a party and it was fantastic. Soon I had everything available, and this time I bought UK imports instead of those crappy US albums.
Then I met a Zappa freak. I knew a little about Zappa, but all I knew about was the "Live Jam" record in John & Yoko's "Sometime In New York City". That performance didn't impress me enough to get me FZ curious. This Zappa freak worked at the local department store, and he was obviously trying to convert me. He played some Zappa recordings in the store (he worked in Records/Tapes/Electronics) and it just clicked. Then about the same time my sister threw a party when Mom & Dad weren't home. One of her friends brought FZ's "Overnite Sensation" album to the party, and we played it on my stereo. I got a kick out of Zappa's smutty lyrics, after all I was only 15 or 16. I collected every Zappa album I could find. Some albums I didn't understand at first, until I learned more about FZ. I remember when I found "Waka/Jawaka" in the store. I read the song titles. I thought "Your Mouth" is probably a very perverted song. I got this album to my house and discovered the instrumentals "Big Swifty" and the title track. Kind of jazzy with hints of rock and classical. At first it was a let down. I was expecting novelty songs, in the style of what Dr. Demento would play on his radio show. I realized then that Zappa was more than silly and obscene lyrics. I had read somewhere that FZ really wanted to be a classical composer, and that he put lyrics to his songs simply because instrumental music seldom sells or gets heard.
What I love the most about Zappa is the music. Sure, "My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama" and "Don't Eat The Yellow Snow" are fun, but dopey songs. The real meat in the FZ catalog lies within the music, especially the instrumentals. "Echidna's Arf" and "Don't You Ever Wash That Thing" (from "Roxy & Elsewhere") are wonderful pieces of music. "Holiday In Berlin" and "Little House I Used To Live In" (from "Burnt Weeny Sandwich") are quite majestic orchestral-style compositions. "Peaches En Regalia" (from "Hot Rats") is simply stunning.
FZ was a bit like a modern day Spike Jones, with touches of Stravinsky, rock and roll, R&B, reggae and soul. He was a great guitar player as well. But I must admit that I can't listen to his guitar solo albums all the way through in one sitting. Hearing guitar solo after guitar solo removes the texture of his music in my opinion. The "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar", "Guitar" and "Trance-Fusion" tracks are best when shuffled between songs from other Zappa albums.
Like whatever you like. It's cool with me (not that I matter), but I don't have to justify my musical tastes. I'm glad to have stumbled into the world of Frank Zappa.
* -eventually I outgrew this practice, and even credit FZ's influence for "helping" me stop getting high. FZ, as everyone probably knows, was not into drugs. While I was getting the drugs out of my system all I wanted to hear was FZ music. Everything else, including The Beatles, reminded me of getting high.
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Post by Amadeus on Apr 8, 2013 21:03:57 GMT
Hey there. As I continue my duties as resident retard, I should take the time to address a couple of comments by the elder statesman Mr. Kite (escrow).
Don't like doo-wop? Huh? I love the stuff. But I should qualify that by saying it's the original black groups' music that I like before the whites got a hold of it and neutered it. That's when rock and roll started to be run by the grown ups. Safe as milk.
I like Neil and the Shocking Pinks. And I also like the next album Old Ways. The country and western crap. I don't like 'new country'. My interest in C&W sort of ended at 1970. So anything from 1900 to 1970 is good.
I like about half of Elvis' output up to and including 1959 when the army made a man out of him. The sun records and the early RCA records had a lot of great stuff on them. But because the Colonel contracted Elvis to record songs only by ONE publisher in an iron clad agreement, that severely limited the choices of songs for Elvis to record. So about 50% of his output even in the '50's was crap because of this silly contract.
I have A LOT of useless and pointless knowledge about musical history. It doesn't clean my dishes, knowing all this stuff.
One of my favorite Zappa bits is the guitar solo (the whole boring thing) in INCA ROADS. (Ugly clothes and all).
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Apr 9, 2013 6:24:55 GMT
The "Inca Roads" solo bores me to excitement!
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 9, 2013 21:03:19 GMT
Hey there . As the master of Nonsense I shall carry on the debate with Amadeus (escrow)( As Ranger is shy about his age and Zappa cd`s?Lps).
Doo wop is crap . I hate it .
I have to even fast forward Sha Na Na on my Woodstock movie which I reckon is the best Rock Movie ever ,. there I said it
Elvis . Cant sing , write songs and is so bobbins with guitars they spend most of the time behind his back. As for acting !!!! He is bobbins . I also still believe that all Rock began in the deep south with Blind Lemon Kitlin ( A distant reletive, I will tell about later , if any cares )
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Post by Amadeus on Apr 10, 2013 0:04:49 GMT
Hey there . As the master of Nonsense I shall carry on the debate with Amadeus (escrow)( As Ranger is shy about his age and Zappa cd`s?Lps). Doo wop is crap . I hate it . I have to even fast forward Sha Na Na on my Woodstock movie which I reckon is the best Rock Movie ever ,. there I said it Elvis . Cant sing , write songs and is so bobbins with guitars they spend most of the time behind his back. As for acting !!!! He is bobbins . I also still believe that all Rock began in the deep south with Blind Lemon Kitlin ( A distant reletive, I will tell about later , if any cares ) Oh yeah???!!!!Well,,you and your silly knees bent running around advancing behaviour, so-called Arthur King who has the brain of a duck you know.Pardon my online tourette's (son of a mitch) Yes, it's all relative, no? Elvis movies are bobbins. But I still like some of those early singles etc etc. Same with doo-wop. ''Rocket 88''. The (arguably) first rock and roll single. What tipped it over the edge so it wasn't just blues/R&B/whatever? The guitar is distorted. You wanna bare a few roots of your family tree? Early rock and roll hero? 'Ol' Deaf Bastard' or wotsit?
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Post by The End on Apr 10, 2013 0:31:09 GMT
What's all this "bobbins" malarky - I thought the censorship thing on the new forum was on the fritz for a sec!! lol
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on May 28, 2013 4:52:43 GMT
Recently acquired Frank Zappa's "The Lumpy Money Project Object". It's a 3 CD collection that consists of the following items: 1) "Lumpy Gravy" - The original mono mix for the immediately withdrawn Capitol Records version of this album. MGM/Verve Records had Zappa and The Mothers Of Invention signed to a contract. Meanwhile someone at Capitol Records decided to have Frank Zappa (as composer and conductor) put together an orchestral album. Although FZ was only the composer and conductor, MGM/Verve threatened to sue. With the Capitol album withdrawn, FZ recorded a NEW version of "Lumpy Gravy", using sections of the Capitol tapes, adding additional music and dialog, creating the "Lumpy Gravy" FZ fans are most familiar with (not included in this set). 2) "We're Only In It For The Money" - For the first time on CD, the original mono mix of the Mothers Of Invention's psychedelic era/hippie bashing album with the inside out "Sgt.Pepper" parody cover. As with the mono "Pepper" album, the mono WOIIFTM has a few interesting differences in sound. 3) "Lumpy Gravy" -The 1984 remix version, with new bass, drum and vocal overdubs. This '84 remix was never released before (except for about 3 minutes on an "Old Masters" sampler album). Some parts of the original recording are extended, some parts are shorter, and some parts are missing. On the other hand, some of the dialog sections are longer. It's my opinion that part of the reason that this was remixed and given new overdubs was because at the time FZ was working on the "Thing-Fish" album. "Thing-Fish" has many reworked songs that contain elements of the original recordings. The opening theme to "Lumpy Gravy" has "Thing-fish" references in it on the '84 remix. I think FZ put these recordings aside, just in case he decided to add parts of it to the "Thing-fish" album. 4) "We're Only In It For The Money" -The 1984 remix version. A Zappa masterpiece ruined by modern technology. When FZ finally got possession of all of the FZ/MOI master tapes after suing MGM/Verve & Warner Brothers, he decided to add new drum & bass overdubs to the albums "Cruising With Ruben And The Jets" and "We're Only In It For The Money". FZ's explanation was that MGM didn't store the master tapes to these albums properly and adding these overdubs was necessary. Evidence reveals this not to be the truth. FZ just wanted to tamper with these albums. But he ruined "Ruben" & "Money" because the drums are electronic, and the bass is a little too forward in the mix. 5) Finally a collection of unreleased recordings from this period. Bravo! It should be noted that the original stereo mixes of "Lumpy Gravy" and "We're Only In It For The Money" aren't included in this mail order only collection. Those two CDs are available separately... It seems my thread has been slightly hi-jacked!!!!
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on May 28, 2013 5:52:58 GMT
Mr. Kite thinks that Woodstock is the greatest RAWKKKKKKKKKK movie EVVVVVEERRRRR. No way, who'd have thought? I certainly didn't see that coming.
About as much a surprise as Arsenal finishing fourth.
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Post by Mr Kite on May 28, 2013 18:05:42 GMT
Mr. Kite thinks that Woodstock is the greatest RAWKKKKKKKKKK movie EVVVVVEERRRRR. No way, who'd have thought? I certainly didn't see that coming. About as much a surprise as Arsenal finishing fourth. What did you expect without your best player . Best Rawwwk Movie ever . Of course it is . Hendrix . The Who . Richie Havens Joan Baez Crosby , Stills , Nash and Young . (there Neil I said it !) Santana , Ten Years After , Canned Heat , Jefferson Airplane , Arlo Guthrie , John Sebastian, Ravi Shanka ! Top 10 Best Rock Films ever . 1. Woodstock . 2. The Kids Are Alright ( after the first 3 mins ) 3. The Song Remains The Same 4. Live In Pompeii 5 Live Rust . 6. Stop Making Sense 7. Concert For Bangladesh 8. Rock Show .( pre ordered ) 9. Live And Dangerous 10. Rush In Rio . Had Grand Wazoo gave to me . I got through half way on the second track Now I know why I had it given to me .
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on May 28, 2013 20:59:53 GMT
FZ's "Grand Wazoo" album is quite good, unless you aren't into the jazz-fusion thing that was so popular in the early to mid 1970's. The only track I can't deal with is "For Calvin (And His Next Two Hitch-hikers)". As much as I like FZ, that one seems to be an exercise in a big band going in and out of tune on purpose.
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Post by Amadeus on May 28, 2013 22:53:02 GMT
Lumpy Money sounds like a worthwhile purchase for fans of the project/object. Would love to hear the Capitol album and the mono Money. The first version I heard of Money was the 1984 version. When I finally heard the original stereo mix from '68, I was disappointed by the very low-fi EQ-ing and that some of the good bits were censored out of it.
There's certain things that appeal to me about the '68 mix but i must admit that I'm almost inclined to go with the '84 mix as the final say.
Is the mono any better? Do you get what I'm saying, about the sound quality?
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on May 29, 2013 11:16:51 GMT
As a fan of FZ since 1974, I have mixed feelings about the '84 remix of WOIIFTM. On the positive side, Frank was able to restore the lyrics that were censored. "Don't come in me,in me" from "Harry You're A Beast" and the infamous "Shut your f*****g mouth about the length of my hair" line from "Mother People" are indeed present in the '84 remix. Also, the whispered comments about the Velvet Underground have been restored as well. Lyrically speaking, the '84 remix is truer to what FZ's original "vision" was supposed to be. On the other hand, the music has been altered to the point that it just sounds wrong to someone who was raised on the original. FZ had Chad Wackerman overdub electronic drums onto the tapes for the '84 remix, and it really rubs me the wrong way. Who played electronic drums in 1967? Also, several sections of music have had their pitch altered...
I compare the '84 remix to someone adding a cowboy hat to the Mona Lisa. The '84 remix has a little more depth, but it's fraudulent. This is the same as having electronic drums overdubbed onto "Sgt. Pepper"...
The same can be said for the '84 remix of "Cruising With Ruben And The Jets", which also has 1984 overdubs of bass (Scott Thunes) and electronic drums (Chad Wackerman). The electronic drums just don't sound right to someone who grew up listening to the original version. Did electronic drums even exist in 1968? It's not authentic.
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Post by Amadeus on May 29, 2013 12:13:21 GMT
A cowboy hat on the Mona Lisa would be amusing. A lot of fans don't find the new rhythm section amusing. Now it's interesting because I knew the vinyl Ruben and the Jets first, so getting the CD was a shock in the sound that I didn't like. I also got the first Rykodisc version when Zappa wasn't into mentioning the members of the Mothers band, so there are no liner notes that match the vinyl artwork. The present day paccuco refuses to die etc...So I DO stick to the vinyl version of that one. And I DO like it. More than most fans.
And Mr Kite...tsk tsk, I find Waka/Jawaka and Wazoo nice relaxing albums to listen too.
My favorite track is easily Waka/Jawaka. I just love the brass charts in that one.
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Post by Amadeus on Jun 1, 2013 13:47:06 GMT
Hey rdnzl: Why do you think Zappa didn't put THIS version of Wonderful Wino on Zoot Allures? I LOVE this version so much more than the one he sings on.
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