roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 14, 2012 2:45:12 GMT
With the 09 Remasters I have discovered the genius of Norman Smith. On this track he is continually moving Georges guitar from L to R & back again-- a very innovative idea in those early days.
For a long time I thought the mid 8 solo was an overdub. It is poss though that all of his guitar playing or more likely vocal is an over dub but I kind of doubt it.
I no longer have my early edition of Lewisohn & it seems that Beethoven has been passed over in the Bealtes Chronicles. I cannot find the date when it was recorded. It would have to be about 18 July.
Congrats again to Denon & Ultrasone for their SLDC & SLogic+ technologies.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 14, 2012 3:36:20 GMT
July 30. Roll Over Beethoven was recorded in 5 takes, the 'best' take being 5. Then 2 attempts at an overdub which brings us to take 7. Take 8 is just the final chord tacked onto the end.
Aug 21 Editing take 7 with 8 (final chord) mono mix done same day.
Now I guess the guitars and vocals were live. The book doesn't say, but I guess that the overdub in question is the hand claps. Also George's voice is double tracked so that must have been done with the hand claps. The first attempt (take 6) didn't work out so the second (take 7) did. then it was edited to the final chord which was take 8.
that oughta do it.
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 14, 2012 16:36:46 GMT
Thanks-- I found it now but in Lewisohn vol 2 the description is not as complete as in the above.
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Post by The End on Mar 14, 2012 23:34:44 GMT
July 30. Roll Over Beethoven was recorded in 5 takes, the 'best' take being 5. Then 2 attempts at an overdub which brings us to take 7. Take 8 is just the final chord tacked onto the end. Aug 21 Editing take 7 with 8 (final chord) mono mix done same day. Now I guess the guitars and vocals were live. The book doesn't say, but I guess that the overdub in question is the hand claps. Also George's voice is double tracked so that must have been done with the hand claps. The first attempt (take 6) didn't work out so the second (take 7) did. then it was edited to the final chord which was take 8. that oughta do it. I'm not convinced it's George double-tracking himself (at least not all the way through) - sounds to me like Paul is double tracking - listen to the line "you ought see him reel and rock" for example.
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Post by The End on Mar 14, 2012 23:43:18 GMT
With the 09 Remasters I have discovered the genius of Norman Smith. On this track he is continually moving Georges guitar from L to R & back again-- a very innovative idea in those early days. I'm not hearing this L to R shift. The only time I can hear lead guitar in the right channel is during the instrumental break. What I did notice in the original stereo mix though was that the backing was faded slightly each time the vocals kicked in - it's not so pronounced in the remasters.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 15, 2012 0:47:44 GMT
What I did notice in the original stereo mix though was that the backing was faded slightly each time the vocals kicked in - it's not so pronounced in the remasters. I think that has to do with the primitive compressors and limiters, the voice comes on, the compressor kicks in. Just a thought. Any how I was playing it on the headphones last night and for a second I thought it might have been Paul double tracking with George. The vocals must have been live because of the band leakage on the vocal channel. And the guitar solo sounds like an overdub, along with the hand claps.
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 15, 2012 1:57:24 GMT
With the 09 Remasters I have discovered the genius of Norman Smith. On this track he is continually moving Georges guitar from L to R & back again-- a very innovative idea in those early days. I'm not hearing this L to R shift. The only time I can hear lead guitar in the right channel is during the instrumental break. What I did notice in the original stereo mix though was that the backing was faded slightly each time the vocals kicked in - it's not so pronounced in the remasters. Actually I have a channel change device and prefer to hear the vocals coming from the left. Be that as it may-- aside from the solo, Georges guitar can be heard in different positions b4 it( the guitar solo) begins. It doesn't go over to the Far opposite like the solo but it is moved from Far original towards the middle at about 80 degrees: there are 4 or 5 strokes like that as well as some that are Far original( before the solo). After the solo, everything seems Far original.
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 15, 2012 2:06:28 GMT
July 30. Roll Over Beethoven was recorded in 5 takes, the 'best' take being 5. Then 2 attempts at an overdub which brings us to take 7. Take 8 is just the final chord tacked onto the end. Aug 21 Editing take 7 with 8 (final chord) mono mix done same day. Now I guess the guitars and vocals were live. The book doesn't say, but I guess that the overdub in question is the hand claps. Also George's voice is double tracked so that must have been done with the hand claps. The first attempt (take 6) didn't work out so the second (take 7) did. then it was edited to the final chord which was take 8. that oughta do it. I'm not convinced it's George double-tracking himself (at least not all the way through) - sounds to me like Paul is double tracking - listen to the line "you ought see him reel and rock" for example. I am not so sure the vocal is double tracked-- does the source actually say that.?
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 15, 2012 2:12:47 GMT
What I did notice in the original stereo mix though was that the backing was faded slightly each time the vocals kicked in - it's not so pronounced in the remasters. I think that has to do with the primitive compressors and limiters, the voice comes on, the compressor kicks in. Just a thought. Any how I was playing it on the headphones last night and for a second I thought it might have been Paul double tracking with George. The vocals must have been live because of the band leakage on the vocal channel. And the guitar solo sounds like an overdub, along with the hand claps. For a long time I thought the G solo was an overdub but w/ the 09 remaster has changed my mind. It should also be remembered that this is a 2- track recording. How Norman did this I do not know. I guess it could have been live.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 15, 2012 2:53:37 GMT
Well, there are 2 voices and if the second is Paul then they were done at the same time. In my ears I hear band leakage coming from the instrumental channel to the vocal channel. The solo doesn't reverberate back to the inst. side at all, it sounds dry as do the hand claps. Perhaps the solo and hand claps were the over dub.
I hear bass, drums, 2 guitars on the left side. And there are 2 voices and handclaps and solo on the left side.
Theory,: Band and vocals recorded, then solo and claps. I'll check but isn't some of that 3 track tape or was it just 2 track up until "Money".
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 15, 2012 5:57:33 GMT
I think U mean 4 track and thanks for bringing up Money. The vocal does seem to be in the mid on this one & b4 the 4 track debut w/ IWTHYH/ This Boy at a later date-- somewhat of a mystery. John's harmonica solo( which is out of tune) on From Me To U is also in the mid-- an obvious over dub.
I have read somewhere that Norman may have mistakenly hit both the L & R inputs at the same time by mistake on FMTU but it may have been done on purpose & later duplicated on Money. OTOH it somewhat difficult to conceive of the lead vocal on Money as an overdub.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 15, 2012 11:44:09 GMT
The most practical and likely scenario would be a live recording of the band with George singing lead vocal and playing lead guitar on track one and double tracked George vocal and handclaps on track 2. The guitar intro and solo sound sonically identical so there is no way these can be overdubs as the intro would have to be played live in order for the rest of the band to come in.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 15, 2012 12:13:03 GMT
Could Be.
I just looked at Lewisohn's book and read the recording notes for the '09 remaster and the whole album was recorded on two track. "Money" was just the result of three tape to tape copying and overdubs. What a tricky way to record. It's like doing a live mix as you add stuff to a track on the second tape as the first tape is being added.
"..Hold Your Hand" and "This Boy" WERE the first 4 track records.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 15, 2012 12:43:41 GMT
Yes, Money was too early for 4 track. Even though they probably had it as standard in the States for years!
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Post by The End on Mar 15, 2012 23:12:55 GMT
I just looked at Lewisohn's book and read the recording notes for the '09 remaster and the whole album was recorded on two track. "Money" was just the result of three tape to tape copying and overdubs. What a tricky way to record. It's like doing a live mix as you add stuff to a track on the second tape as the first tape is being added. "..Hold Your Hand" and "This Boy" WERE the first 4 track records. Yep, was going to say exactly that - no 4 track recording on WTB. Any thoughts about the vocals - as I said, to my ears, it sounds like Paul backing George up.
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Post by The End on Mar 15, 2012 23:15:51 GMT
This from the WTB sleeve notes though "'ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN has been one of the most requested items at recent concert performances by The Beatles. George duets with himself on this one; the boys add to the atmosphere of excitement by their hand-clapping."
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 16, 2012 1:04:45 GMT
I know what you mean about that bit sounding like Paul double tracking the vocal with George. However the reason I don't think it is Paul is because if he was singing at all on the track I don't think he would have been content with just double tracking - he would have definitely harmonised on the chorus and outro singing a 3rd or a 5th to George's vocal on the 'roll over Beethoven' bit.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 16, 2012 2:55:08 GMT
Like he did live. I'm certain I've heard it live with Paul's harmony.
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roscoe
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 189
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Post by roscoe on Mar 16, 2012 7:01:28 GMT
By comparing John's masterful harmonica on Pls Pls Me & Thank U Girl( although the very last note is off) to FMTU it can be detected that the latter is just plain out of tune. It makes one wonder if a pre- overdub version may exist.
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Post by The End on Mar 16, 2012 22:26:55 GMT
There are loads of different takes of the overdubs for From Me To You and Thank You Girl floating around in bootleg land, so I don't think it's in question that the harmonica on these two tracks was overdubbed, is it?
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