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Post by Bobber on Nov 6, 2008 21:44:39 GMT
Bill, can you confirm this piece of information from Richie Unterberger's book The Unreleased Beatles? It's about the recording with Lu Walters from October 1960. I quote: "...Oddly, a photo of the record appears in Williams autobiography; even odder, a December 1963 Mersey Beat article claimed, "The discs are still available in Liverpool and being played regularly." Should one finally turn up, it might break the record now held by the surviving 1958 Quarrymen 'That'll Be The Day'/'In Spite Of All The Danger' demo as the most valuable British disc."
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
Posts: 606
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Post by BlueMeanie on Nov 6, 2008 22:39:03 GMT
So this was the very first time John, Paul, George and Ringo recorded together. Did you ever hear the recording Bill? It was a recording of 'Summertime' wasn't it? These little studios were dotted all over Germany. Mainly used by British and American servicemen to record messages to send home to their families.
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Post by billharry on Nov 7, 2008 1:29:28 GMT
I did try to trace a copy some years ago, but all seem to be lost. Johnny Guitar didn't have his, Ty Brien had died and I think Lu lost his.
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Post by Bobber on Nov 7, 2008 8:25:24 GMT
I think they recorded Summertime and Fever, but the opinions differ. Strange tho that Allan Williams has a picture of it in his biography? Although John, Paul, George and Ringo come together on this recording, the lead vocals are by Lu Walters. So maybe the record is not recognized as being the Beatles.
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Post by billharry on Nov 7, 2008 9:21:52 GMT
This small area of Beatles history is covered in confusion, yet it’s importance can’t be denied because it is the first time that John, Paul, George and Ringo ever recorded together. Over the years I have discussed the sessions with some of the people present and the stories do differ. In the 1970s I took Allan Williams along to the Keystone Press Agency with his photograph of the Beatles at Arnhem, to ensure that he received royalties from any publication of the picture and also to see that it wasn’t lost to posterity. I also asked Allan whether he had a disc from the Akustik session. He told me that he’d left it behind in a London pub. A copy of the disc existed at the time of the Mersey Beat article on it– Allan certainly had it in his possession throughout the 1960s, although there were also other copies that existed at the time. For many years Virginia and I used to visit Johnny Byrne and his wife Margaret at their home in Crosby and conversations often drifted to memories of various events, including the Akustik sessions. As far as I could ascertain, Allan had been very impressed by Lu Walters’ voice and wanted to make a record of him. Lu was the second lead vocalist with Rory Storm & the Hurricanes and did, indeed, sing mostly ballads. If you look at the Rory Storm & The Hurricanes history on the Mersey Beat site you will see a sample of the numbers Lou actually sang on stage with the Hurricanes: ‘Fever’, ‘Summertime’, ‘Let It Be Me’, ‘Beautiful Dreamer’ and ‘Mailman.’ Cilla Black also sang ‘Fever’ with the Hurricanes. At the time when she asked me to become her manager, she said she wanted to be a jazz singer and asked if I could find a jazz trio to back her. At the time she said her favourite singer was Peggy Lee. It’s also logical that Allan would wish to record Lu rather than the Beatles because he considered the Hurricanes to be a top group at the time and rated them much higher than the Beatles. Obviously, with Lu as vocalist, this meant that Rory wouldn’t be singing on the recordings. Pete Best also went into Hamburg city centre to buy drumsticks at the time and wasn’t present. I believe it was felt that Hurricanes drummer Ringo Starr was more familiar with the numbers they were playing and would remain on drums. In fact, it seemed as if John, Paul and George (Stuart Sutcliffe was also absent from the sessions) were actually just providing vocal harmony as Lu played bass, Ringo drums and Ty Brien lead. Perhaps they heard that Lu was going to record with some of the Hurricanes and asked to be present at the session. According to what I heard, John, Paul and George were only on the track ‘Summertime’. Johnny Guitar, Ty Brien and Ringo backed Lu on ‘Fever’ and ‘September Song.’ I was also told that the discs cost three marks each, but only six of the acetates were bought. No one knows what happened to them. Rory Storm had one, Lu gave his copy to his ex-wife, Williams left his in a London pub and Ty Brien also bought one, but it couldn’t be traced after his death, Johnny Guitar also recalled that John and Paul bought a copy each, but they have never mentioned doing so. Allan Williams actually paid for the recording session and it’s interesting to note that after Lu had recorded his numbers, the Beatles asked Allan if they could record, but he refused to pay for them to do so. It seems that the memories of the Beatles themselves in the ‘Anthology’ are far from reliable.
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Post by ROCKY on Sept 28, 2013 12:56:21 GMT
It was 41 years ago Rory (Alan Caldwell)passed away. R I P Rory.
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Post by pothos on Oct 21, 2013 23:02:58 GMT
Really pleased to have discovered this forum and this thread in particular. Only just discovered Rory Storm and the Hurricanes and have been trying to read as much as I can about him on the internet as well as the Tom Egbers book. Google translate has been working overtime to try and translate the Dutch to English and so far I have only managed a few chapters.
I think Rory and the band were a pivotal force in the UK music scene and from what I can gather was a well respected lad who was a gifted front man and vocalist.
From what I have read from the Egbers book I disagree with his assessment of the events of September 1972 but I suspect the members of this thread in particular have more knowledge of Rory and his career. I found the clip of the band rather wonderful although I gather they were much more raucous than the Shadows dance they were filmed doing onstage (the toast story made me laugh as well).
Although I am of the wrong era to have enjoyed the Beatles and Rory at the time you cannot argue that their efforts built the Uk music scene and I wish I could have seen Rory onstage. Sounds like he was a tremendous performer and loved by many.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 22, 2013 22:10:08 GMT
Welcome to the Forum pothos.
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Post by pothos on Oct 22, 2013 22:19:49 GMT
Thank you for the welcome. Does anyone on this forum have any extra information on Rory and the Hurricanes that I may have missed.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 22, 2013 23:35:42 GMT
Really pleased to have discovered this forum and this thread in particular. Only just discovered Rory Storm and the Hurricanes and have been trying to read as much as I can about him on the internet as well as the Tom Egbers book. Google translate has been working overtime to try and translate the Dutch to English and so far I have only managed a few chapters. I think Rory and the band were a pivotal force in the UK music scene and from what I can gather was a well respected lad who was a gifted front man and vocalist. From what I have read from the Egbers book I disagree with his assessment of the events of September 1972 but I suspect the members of this thread in particular have more knowledge of Rory and his career. I found the clip of the band rather wonderful although I gather they were much more raucous than the Shadows dance they were filmed doing onstage (the toast story made me laugh as well). Although I am of the wrong era to have enjoyed the Beatles and Rory at the time you cannot argue that their efforts built the Uk music scene and I wish I could have seen Rory onstage. Sounds like he was a tremendous performer and loved by many. You mean the supposed double suicide with his mother? What's your theory?
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Post by pothos on Oct 23, 2013 12:07:21 GMT
The trouble is that I am relying on a translation from Dutch to English so please do not quote me on these statements as facts (unless someone can verify) All he had in his system (again to Tom Egbers book) is 10 painkillers and the equivalent of a thimble full of whisky. He had a dental appointment for issues he was having. If this was an on going pain issue again could it have been another reason he was taking painkillers so frequently. It is also known he was prone to chest issues and bouts of bronchitis. I do think Rory was very run down with the death of his father Ernie, his broken engagement, the loss of the money he had owing to him from some appearances and music residency after the bloke got arrested for tax violations in Germany but to me it a massive leap to state he was deliberately planning something.
I cannot discover if there was a time difference between his passing and his mum's who did take her life. This would be the clincher to me as it would back up the theory his mum found him first then took her life. Added to the fact he left no note and Rory was dressed in what you call everyday pyjamas and the sheet was lovingly placed over his face (doesn't that sound like something a loving mum would do for her child). Violet as a devout lady might have taken Rory's death as a sign which is why the only note found refers to "We decided"
So too many little things that just seem slightly off makes me believe it was a terrible accident.
Rory comes over in the book as such a wonderful funny, warm hearted, music and sports daft individual. To read so many stories of his adventures that have made me laugh to the point of tears. The incident in Amsterdam when he chats up Sandra in a nightclub where he has taken Violet as his guest, the revelation that follows and how utterly polite and sweet he is both to Sandra and Violet was just amazing.
I love the image of Rory in the book stood with the Liverpool football team he is stood in his kit arms crossed beaming at being with his sporting heroes.
As I have only translated parts of the book I have no idea on sections of his life and career other than the pieces I have read online. So hope that this post does not offend Iris (who has gone through enough) or the moderators of the board.
I am amazed at how entwined he was in the early Beatles story and how little he was recognised for it.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 23, 2013 21:28:51 GMT
You're not offending anyone. We're all into a good theory around here! And your theory makes more sense than the double suicide theory. However it's hard to imagine someone so young dying as a result of a mixture of a small whiskey and 10 pain killers. Unless he took them all at once and they suppressed his respiratory rate. He apparently suffered from bronchitis I believe. A respiratory diagnosis in the 1970's was often questionable compared to a diagnoss today.
As good a front man as Rory was, he himself was probably a big reason why they never made it beyond Liverpool, Hamburg and summer seasons at Butlins. The set list was stuck in the late 50's and rarely changed. It's fair to say Rory wasn't a great singer based on the available recordings and reports of the time. Of course the band didn't write their own material whch didn't help. The summer seasons in Butlins hardly did them any favours. By the time they got to London to record (with Brian Epstein unbelievably producing one of their two only singles!), the record companies had effectively closed the door to Merseybeat bands, frightened of a permanent musical power shift.
However, I agree. His importance in Merseybeat and the formative years of The Beatles Should not be ignored. Incidentally I live about 5 minutes away from his childhood home in Liverpool and of course where he died. I drove past today as it happens. Deliberately so, following your posts stirring my interest and doing some research on him.
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Post by Amadeus on Oct 23, 2013 22:31:51 GMT
Also, A live event in a smallish room featuring acrobatic rock and roll is much more of an 'experience' than hearing it played back in the cold light of day. The Hurricanes must've been a 'you have to see them' type of band. But they stayed on the one level from beginning to end. Groups like the Beatles started somewhere well below them but kept improving until they had well surpassed them. The Hurricanes never changed.
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Post by pothos on Oct 23, 2013 22:38:24 GMT
This is interesting as I actually like his voice sort of a mixture of raucous rock and roll sensibilities and rampant charisma. I Can Tell is really wonderful in it's almost garage rock feel. I am fascinated as to why he was so enthralled by the pure rock and roll sound. It was the one thing in the book I could not get a fix on regarding his career. He was a pure showman and the stagecraft he created actually can be seen in Bowie and the Faces especially. I am left wondering why the band made no attempt at song writing or to add a new member to the group as a natural and have them progress.
Reading up on him left me with so many questions as he was a mass of contradictions.
But as I said I do not buy into the double suicide theory. Somehow having a 6 foot 2 bloke dying of ten pill when his mum died of 40 and 4 large glasses of alcohol does not ring true to me.
By the way in the youtube clip that was posted on this thread of the band playing is that Iris talking about having toast thrown at her by Rory.
By the way thank you for the welcome.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 23, 2013 22:54:45 GMT
I'm totally with you on the double suicide theory. From what I've read, Rory seemed just as much at home competing at his Athletics club as he was playing live with his band.
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Post by pothos on Oct 24, 2013 11:06:00 GMT
I have not had the time or the ability I am still trying to work out how I can translate a scanned page rather than translate one word at a time. Two thirds of the book at least are on the period regarding the Beatles more if you count Ringo as separate. At least one chapter is about his time with Pembroke Harriers with plenty of photographs and certificates showing his achievements and possible aim at qualifying for the Rome Olympics. Oddest mentions at least two pages on the race horse Devon Lock, also Roy Rogers and Trigger. Rory seems to have a meltdown every time Liverpool lose a match (even as a kid) crashing the Mersey Ferry and knocking a man out cold who was dressed in a gorilla suit who was heckling him. The mere mention of Dixie Dean seems to make Rory go into effing and jeffing mode. So many moments are of Rory /Alan at football matches. I think Iris must have had a massive input in this book as even in Dutch the detail comes across.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 24, 2013 12:44:48 GMT
By the way in the youtube clip that was posted on this thread of the band playing is that Iris talking about having toast thrown at her by Rory. I'm not sure, but I think it might be. Also Ty O'Brian, the lead guitarist for The Hurricanes, died on stage in '67 and Rory disbanded the group shortly thereafter. I also think that Rory commiting suicide is entirely wrong. His Mom may have though in a state of despair.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 24, 2013 14:50:23 GMT
By the way in the youtube clip that was posted on this thread of the band playing is that Iris talking about having toast thrown at her by Rory. I'm not sure, but I think it might be. Also Ty O'Brian, the lead guitarist for The Hurricanes, died on stage in '67 and Rory disbanded the group shortly thereafter. I also think that Rory commiting suicide is entirely wrong. His Mom may have though in a state of despair. That's right Rocky although Ty didn't actually die onstage. He collapsed on stage and died later in hospital as a result of complications of appendicitis.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 24, 2013 18:49:17 GMT
Thanx for making that clear mm.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 24, 2013 23:26:46 GMT
Tell me Pothos, you can't have just honed in on Rory Storm. Are there other Merseybeat bands you are into? Are you into The Beatles?
Clearly Rory is a passion for you.
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