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Post by Amadeus on Sept 19, 2013 23:00:35 GMT
I'm listening to the Pete Best Combo comp - Beyond The Beatles, and the drums are mixed a bit low. hard to hear what he's doing. But any of the recordings he did with the Beatles were weak and Ringo was a 'genius' by 'Please, Please Me'.
Also, the material of The Pete Best Combo is so weak compared to The Beatles. It's hard to listen to sometimes. Not weak. I meant, really cheesy.
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Post by petebest on Sept 19, 2013 23:07:31 GMT
Well, nobody comes close to Lennon-McCartney! Try this for a more apt comparison:
Rumour has it that is Best himself singing lead. He did so with The Beatles as well on a few songs (Matchbox, Boys, Peppermint Twist)
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Post by Amadeus on Sept 19, 2013 23:12:02 GMT
Thanks for that. Never heard it before.
At any rate, it never would've worked out, 'cos Pet publicly stated that he thought the Beatles had lost the plot by Sgt Pepper's.
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 19, 2013 23:15:28 GMT
One should take into account that when The Beatles went into record Love Me Do with Best, their arrangement at the time was based around shifting time signatures a la "Hey Baby"(Bruce Channel). The very idea to use the harmonica came to Lennon via Channel. Throw into the mix an EMI engineer requesting Pete try some bits based around jazz drumming of which he had no experience, it's all partly why it sounds as dire as it does. One listen to the Decca Tapes reveal that he'd be more than capable of playing a straight beat a la Ringo or Andy White had that been the direction they were taking at the time. So it's a bit unfair to compare, IMHO. Hang on a minute! Have you previously been on this forum under a different name? Beatlesattheirbest for example??
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Post by petebest on Sept 19, 2013 23:21:52 GMT
Agree that Ringo was the right fit and history proved it. I just don't believe however, that Best was "a bad drummer" nor was Ringo the first choice as a replacement:
1. Immediately after his dismissal from The Beatles, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes asked Pete to join. he declined. 2. Epstein wanted to build The Merseybeats around Pete. Pete declined. 3. Pete did join Lee Curtis & The All-Stars. They finished 2nd only to the Beatles in the NME fan popularity poll of '63 (I believe) 4. It is confirmed that at least Johnny Hutch of The Big Three was asked to join the Beatles before Ringo, but declined out of respect to Best. I also believe Tommy Moore was asked as well.
It's too bad there isn't some Star Club recordings with Best at the time...well, who knows...perhaps something might surface one day!
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Post by petebest on Sept 19, 2013 23:22:28 GMT
No...new to the forum. have seen that doc though!
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 19, 2013 23:28:29 GMT
There are plenty of people still around that were there in Liverpool at the time. A lot say he had a really powerful sound because he hit the bass drum on every beat of the bar. Well that may be sound good in a sweaty club playing loud, gritty Rock'n'Roll but anything else he was lacking. That 4 in the bar bass drum doesn't work in the studio either.
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Post by petebest on Sept 19, 2013 23:29:34 GMT
"That 4 in the bar bass drum doesn't work in the studio either"
Try telling that to Disco Music!! ;-)
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 19, 2013 23:31:47 GMT
"That 4 in the bar bass drum doesn't work in the studio either" Try telling that to Disco Music!! ;-) Yeah, yeah not with The Beatles it wouldn't of or any rock band.
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Post by mrmustard on Sept 19, 2013 23:35:11 GMT
Tommy Moore asked??? I'm not having that! Where's the reference for that?!
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Post by petebest on Sept 19, 2013 23:39:11 GMT
My mistake...did not mean to say Moore (drummers getting mixed up in my head!), meant to say Bobby Graham.
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Post by Mr Kite on Sept 20, 2013 16:36:20 GMT
Thanks for that. Never heard it before. At any rate, it never would've worked out, 'cos Pet publicly stated that he thought the Beatles had lost the plot by Sgt Pepper's. What !. For the second time I find myself in the "Fifth" Beatle bit . I have a few questions . 1. Hands up who got into The Beatles because of Pete Best ? 2. Who thinks George Martin did`nt have a clue about his dicison about Pete`s ability ? (remember George was there not you ) 3. What would have Pete brought with him if he had stayed in The Beatles instead of Ringo ? 4. Lets be honest , who would really had been bothered who was playing the drums when you first heard The Beatles ? Since Bands have begun there has been members been sacked left right and centre . Pete just happened to be sacked from the greatest band of all time and thats why he is know even today . Sorry but Pete Best was not a Beatle when they became famous and recorded the finest music that has ever been and ever will be so in my mind Pete Best is not a Beatle . Your answers should be . 1. Not me. 2. Not me . 3. Nothing . 4. Not me .
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Post by petebest on Oct 2, 2013 17:27:22 GMT
Here's an interesting document which reflects how The Beatles TRULY sounded with Best as drummer:
The first 6 songs are from the very first two BBC shows the Beatles did in March and June 1962. It is documented that Pete was on drums for these songs.
Interesting in that one can compare songs such as "Mr. Postman" and "Ask Me Why" in terms of performance. For Best doubters, these recordings clearly demonstrate that in no way was he "not up to snuff" musically. In fact, they sound VERY good. Again, I understand that Ringo was a better fit for them in many other ways, but I am beginning to feel that the jealousy angle oft-mentioned for his sacking, had at least some validity.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 2, 2013 20:09:17 GMT
Thanks for posting this. However it proves nothing other than Pete could play drums. To what level is impossible to say from this recording as all you can hear is a snare drum. The drumming displayed here is what every Liverpool drummer was doing at the time, that boom, cha cha on the snare. Ringo was more versatile than Pete. No question. He had more swing whereas Pete was, and still is, very regimented as a drummer. You seriously have to ask yourself, if Pete was that good a drummer why did he not get snapped by another band? Roles had to be created for him. Epstein got him into Lee Curts and the Allstars because he was Friends with their manager Joe Flannery. They never asked Pete.
I really think you are reaching to far to try to prove something that isn't there with this BBC recording. Ask yourself anther question. Who is the second most successful drummer from Liverpool from the 60's? It's an open forum question.
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Post by petebest on Oct 2, 2013 21:21:50 GMT
Thanks for posting this. However it proves nothing other than Pete could play drums. To what level is impossible to say from this recording as all you can hear is a snare drum. The drumming displayed here is what every Liverpool drummer was doing at the time, that boom, cha cha on the snare. Ringo was more versatile than Pete. No question. He had more swing whereas Pete was, and still is, very regimented as a drummer. You seriously have to ask yourself, if Pete was that good a drummer why did he not get snapped by another band? Roles had to be created for him. Epstein got him into Lee Curts and the Allstars because he was Friends with their manager Joe Flannery. They never asked Pete. I really think you are reaching to far to try to prove something that isn't there with this BBC recording. Ask yourself anther question. Who is the second most successful drummer from Liverpool from the 60's? It's an open forum question. It's incorrect to say that Pete needed "roles" to be created for him. For one, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes asked him immediately to join their group and he turned them down. I can certainly hear more than the snare drum listening to those recordings, so not sure where you're coming from. Objectively - I don't detect any real quality or musical differences in Ringo's versions of the same songs and that is my assertion - I don't believe that at the time, there was much separating them in terms of abilities. You might prefer Ringo overall , fair enough, but I started looking into this particular period in Beatles' lore because the Best sacking just never seemed quite explained to my satisfaction...still isn't and probably never will be. Just find it interesting and trying to prove any kind of point here is fruitless as it's history that can't be changed.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 2, 2013 21:34:17 GMT
So, basically, if you don't change people's minds to your way of thinking then its pointless? You've given nothing that would make anyone want to reverse their point of view on this subject.
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Post by petebest on Oct 2, 2013 22:25:15 GMT
Not trying to change anybody's mind...just trying to state my opinion and reveal some Best material that perhaps no one has heard before so they can make up their own minds.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 2, 2013 22:28:06 GMT
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Incidentally, I live right near Pete Best.
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Post by Amadeus on Oct 2, 2013 23:14:01 GMT
The only person it really makes a difference to is Pete Best. I have to admit that it never hurt my home life when he got fired. That earthquake in China didn't curtail my lifestyle either. But both events would've had about the same effect on Pete himself, (if he was in China at the time).
At any roads, this is the final answer from Macca as to why Pete was sacked. Really, the only answer that matters:
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 3, 2013 1:52:02 GMT
Here's the bottom line, if Pete outlives all four Beatles, who really was the lucky one? lol
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