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Post by peregrine9 on May 31, 2011 3:20:21 GMT
London Evening Standard May 24, 2011 Ringo claims Beatles were 'lucky' to get him Ringo Starr has claimed The Beatles were lucky to have him as their drummer The 70-year-old musician - who replaced former drummer Pete Best two years after the original line-up was formed - claimed he was better known in Liverpool than The Beatles when he joined, and they were fortunate he chose to work with them. www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23953009-ringo-claims-beatles-were-lucky-to-get-him.do
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KeepUnderCover
What Goes On In Your Heart
Across The Universe
Posts: 42
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Post by KeepUnderCover on Jun 13, 2011 23:26:26 GMT
I agree with Ringo, they were extremely lucky to get him.
Pete Best was a good drummer, but wasn't much of a songwriter. Ringo is at best a fair vocalist, but as a songwriter, he is extremely talented (in fact, I'd put his songwriting right up there with the other three Beatles.)
If they had stayed with Pete, they might have had some success, but when they got Ringo, they also got a fourth songwriter. Which strengthened the band.
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 14, 2011 7:08:29 GMT
I agree with Ringo, they were extremely lucky to get him. Pete Best was a good drummer, but wasn't much of a songwriter. Ringo is at best a fair vocalist, but as a songwriter, he is extremely talented (in fact, I'd put his songwriting right up there with the other three Beatles.) If they had stayed with Pete, they might have had some success, but when they got Ringo, they also got a fourth songwriter. Which strengthened the band. I can't possibly let you get away with this! There's perhaps a legitimate discussion to say 'The Beatles where lucky to get' Ringo. I personally think that's a ridiculous statement. In truth Ringo is probably having a bit of laugh when he said this. At that time in liverpol Johnny Hutch from The Big Three was regarded as the best drummer on Liverpool and recordings would back this up. According to the liner notes from the most recent Big Three release, johnny hutch was offered the post in The Beatles before Ringo! Even if that's true or not The Beatles where the only group to have a record contract in Liverpool so who in their right mind wouldn't join if they had any aspirations to make it big. All that's up for discussion but you can't surely believe that Ringo's songwriting in The Beatles made one iota of difference to their success! Apart from a writing credit on What Goes On, his first official song was Don't Pass Me By. If Ringo hadn't of come up with this song for The White Album do you really think it would have made the album any less than a masterpiece? Or for that matter made The Beatles any a lesser band than they were? No, of course not. Octopus's Garden, an infinitely better song than Don't Pass Me By, had considerable input from Harrison as did many of Ringo's early big solo hits, which he tends to play down a lot. I know I've gone on a bit but to compare Ringo three of the best singerwriters in the history of music is absurd and to suggest that his songwriting contributions led to the success of the band is nearly as bad! Ringo was the best drummer in the world The Beatles could ever have had in the band.
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KeepUnderCover
What Goes On In Your Heart
Across The Universe
Posts: 42
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Post by KeepUnderCover on Jun 14, 2011 18:01:03 GMT
I have to disagree completely about Ringo being the best drummer. He's an adequate drummer at best, and what he does works for The Beatles, but he isn't the best drummer, by any stretch of the imagination. I am a huge Genesis and Rush fan. I'll name drop some legends - Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Neil Peart. Especially Neil Peart; I watched him on Letterman a few days ago, and I was amazed at how brilliant his drumming is. He made those drums sing! I've also seen Ringo live, and I was more impressed by his singing than by his drumming. Anyway, who cares? I am a fan of Ringo's solo works. Some aren't. That's perfectly fine. And I definitely do believe that he's a strong songwriter; not every songwriter that has "collaborators", means that he/she can't write!
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 14, 2011 19:41:52 GMT
If you are referring to my post then you are wrong. I never said Ringo was the best drummer. I said he was the best drummer for The Beatles. If you ask me who are the best drummers in their own right technically then I would say Bruford, Peart, Michael Giles over Ringo without question. Bruford or Peart would not have worked in The Beatles no matter how good they are.
Also, to call Ringo 'adequate' is ill-informed to say the least and an insult to the most famous drummer in the world. He was a highly imaginative and influential drummer. I guarantee Phil Collins would not refer to Ringo as adequate. Buddy Rich might (and did) but then he was a miserable get who only liked jazz and big band swing!
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KeepUnderCover
What Goes On In Your Heart
Across The Universe
Posts: 42
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Post by KeepUnderCover on Jun 14, 2011 20:09:30 GMT
I suppose you're right.
And I was referring to adequate, in the way that Phil Collins could sit in Ringo's place and play Beatles songs, but Ringo couldn't sit in on Genesis and play Supper's Ready. Not gonna happen.
That doesn't mean I dislike Ringo! I just said that I am a huge Ringo fan. He's the only Beatle I've seen live, and I was very impressed with his live show. I just don't think he's the greatest drummer there has ever been.
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hmmmmm
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 74
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Post by hmmmmm on Jun 15, 2011 12:40:24 GMT
Leaving aside for a moment the songwriting and musicianship, The Beatles were lucky in that his personality did so much for the group, especially their first trip to the States, where he was a favourite of both the press and the fans, besides, John relied on him for titles With regards to the songwriting, he must have been pretty slow, as in an interview with Brian Matthews, circa 1964 he refers to a song he's working on entitled Don't Pass Me By.
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Post by lettherebemusic on Jun 16, 2011 10:36:14 GMT
^ I've seen that. and I often wonder what happened for it to have taken so long? 'Octopuses Garden' (which I love) was definitely written in a much shorter time span. I don't really understand why people are so offended by this... Yes. The Beatles were kinda lucky to get him. But he was also lucky the Beatles wanted him. They were lucky to get him at the time. Because at the time, he was in a band that was much more well known and he was certainly taking a gamble by leaving Rory to join The Beatles when no one knew for sure how well they might have done. Heck, they were having a lot of trouble just getting signed. Ringo didn't really like being with Rory so I guess there's that... But I think he would have been able to keep drumming anyway. =P Was it a smart move made by him? Yes, most indefinably. I highly doubt he would have been able to make it big outside of Liverpool however, without them. But with Pete as a drummer... or just a studio drummer, changing drummers all the time... who knows what might have happened without him? Personally... I don't think they would have been able to find someone with such a steady beat and inventiveness. Yes. they were lucky. But it was mutually beneficial, is the point I'm trying to get at. Personally- I know I wouldn't be a Beatles fan if it weren't for him! It's that unique chemistry between the four of them that sets the band off. "Where would they be without the steady support of your drumbeat?" Who knows?
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 22, 2011 16:59:15 GMT
At the time of Ringo being offered the job in The Beatles, he was doing a summer season in Butlins Holiday camp with Rory Storm and they were all bored out of there minds doing caberet. He wasn't really taking much of a gamble joining The Beatles given that they had a well respected manger (with music industry contacts), a recording contract and wrote original material. I'm sure Ringo didn't give it a second thought when he got the call off Brian Epstein.
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tkitna
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 214
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Post by tkitna on Jun 27, 2011 5:06:15 GMT
Mr. M has this nailed, but I couldnt help myself to add that Ringo is not a good songwriter and its silly to think he is. John, Paul, and George used to make fun of him when he would approach them with the songs he wrote because they always turned out to be songs that already existed. Surely, everybody has heard the lads poking fun of him for writing a classic again. His solo efforts were mostly with a little help from his friends too.
Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but even with record contract, manager, and so forth, didnt Ringo almost join Kingsize Taylor in 62' instead of the Beatles, but the Beatles offered him more cash? I think they both lucked into each other.
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henryj
For A Number Of Things
Posts: 792
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Post by henryj on Jan 1, 2012 3:08:13 GMT
I don't think it was a case of Ringo being "good" or "better" or "best." It was that Ringo was RIGHT for the Beatles. He played for the song. He didn't simply play the drums. He played music on the drums. I do think they were lucky to get him.
As far as his songwriting, I have read (don't know how accurately) that a lot of Ringo's stuff was ghost-cowritten by George Harrison, who also cowrote Cream's "Badge" with Eric Clapton using the name "L'Angelo Mysterioso."
Anyone ever noticed how much Ringo's "It Don't Come Easy" sounds like Clapton's "Let It Rain?" Did George co-write those two songs?
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 1, 2012 11:52:34 GMT
I don't think it was a case of Ringo being "good" or "better" or "best." It was that Ringo was RIGHT for the Beatles. He played for the song. He didn't simply play the drums. He played music on the drums. I do think they were lucky to get him. As far as his songwriting, I have read (don't know how accurately) that a lot of Ringo's stuff was ghost-cowritten by George Harrison, who also cowrote Cream's "Badge" with Eric Clapton using the name "L'Angelo Mysterioso." Anyone ever noticed how much Ringo's "It Don't Come Easy" sounds like Clapton's "Let It Rain?" Did George co-write those two songs? George co-wrote (or even just wrote) It Don't Come Easy. Ringo learned the song from a George demo of it. Ringos contribution was probably minimal if any. George was very generous to Ringo in terms of helping him write songs and didn't take any credit. Judging by the Let It Be film, George appears to have helped him write Octopus's Garden in terms of chords of song structure. Clapton wrote Let It Rain with Delaney and Bonnie. Stephen Stills plays the solo I believe and George sings backing vocals. It's quite probable that if George was on the session he may of contributed to the song though and again remained uncredited.
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darter
And That's A Start
Posts: 3
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Post by darter on Apr 10, 2012 4:50:14 GMT
Ringo is right. He was compatible with the group and I find his drumming imaginative and subtle - perfect for the pensive quality of a Beatles song (mostly). As for Pete Best, George Martin found him lacking and more recently I saw an article about a Best group that required two drummers, presumably so that one drummer could compensate for Best. I think it was in the Washington Post about five years ago. As an aside, I think there was just one song on Anthology that had Best's drumming and Martin said that was the only royalty he ever received for his work with the Beatles. Kinda a shame but that's life.
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 10, 2012 8:13:19 GMT
I completely agree with you on Bests drumming. I too have seen him over recent years with a second drummer (usually his brother Roag) playing most of the fills while Best was playing mainly a straight rhythm. Saying this Ringo has been doing the same for years so we can't really hold that against Pete.
There were a number of songs on Anotholgy 1 with Bests drumming on - not just one. He earned a substantial amount of money from this album and deservedly so.
If you want to read a very heated debate on this forum about Pete Best and his drumming search for a thread called Beatles At Their Best. Enjoy...........
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 10, 2012 8:28:46 GMT
And a very warm welcome to the forum Darter!
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Post by ROCKY on Apr 10, 2012 18:21:57 GMT
I don't care if Ringo was the best, the worst, or a mediocre drummer, I just could never see any other drummer in the world sitting up there behind those three cool guys. What karma, or whatever you want to call it, they had between one another no other group in the history of music had. They were the best at what they did and Ringo was one fourth of that. Were John, Paul and George lucky to get him..probably, but Ringo was also lucky to have stumbled upon John. Paul and George too!
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 10, 2012 18:45:14 GMT
I don't care if Ringo was the best, the worst, or a mediocre drummer, I just could never see any other drummer in the world sitting up there behind those three cool guys. What karma, or whatever you want to call it, they had between one another no other group in the history of music had. They were the best at what they did and Ringo was one fourth of that. Were John, Paul and George lucky to get him..probably, but Ringo was also lucky to have stumbled upon John. Paul and George too! You're right Rocky. Just try telling that to our old friend Beatlesattheirbest!!!
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Post by ROCKY on Apr 10, 2012 23:52:46 GMT
Yeah I remember him. lol I didn't get involved in that thread because he was so adament in that Pete WAS The Beatles it was usless in trying to get him to listen to reason. So wherever you are Mr. Beatlesattheirbest R.I.P. lol
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Jan 9, 2013 13:55:55 GMT
Well, according to Mark Lewisohn, who has actually heard every session tape in EMI's vault...Very rarely did a take break down because of Ringo's drumming.
Fate is a very strange thing. I suppose it's possible that Ringo really was the ingredient they needed to succeed. And in that case they were all lucky to have combined into that famous foursome.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 10, 2013 22:52:40 GMT
Well, according to Mark Lewisohn, who has actually heard every session tape in EMI's vault...Very rarely did a take break down because of Ringo's drumming. Fate is a very strange thing. I suppose it's possible that Ringo really was the ingredient they needed to succeed. And in that case they were all lucky to have combined into that famous foursome. Hey rdnzi, when you have a spare three days read the Beatles At Their Best thread. It's a must read for you I think!
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