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Post by Amadeus on Mar 14, 2012 21:57:13 GMT
You actually like Open Your Eyes?
The video kind of confirms that the world is full of bums!
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 15, 2012 22:32:05 GMT
OOPS ! I don`t have Open Your Eyes either I shall Spotify it and have a listen .
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 16, 2012 3:05:20 GMT
I could barely stand to listen to it once all the way through. Steve Howe has since said that he doesn't like it either. The cheese, cringe-worthy factor was in high levels on this album
I just thought that all the worst Jon lyrical cliches and insipid prog lite brought the promise of Keys To Ascension (studio tracks) to a screaming stop. They sort of redeemed themselves with The Ladder, Magnification wasn't too bad either.
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 16, 2012 17:00:10 GMT
Open Your Eyes . Yes .(Pun not intended) it is a bad `un But that is with every long running band , they all have a duffer in their catalouge . Except Led Zepp. Magnification . I liked that album very much
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 16, 2012 17:55:31 GMT
Open Your Eyes . Yes .(Pun not intended) it is a bad `un But that is with every long running band , they all have a duffer in their catalouge . Except Led Zepp. Magnification . I liked that album very much Coda was hardly Led Zep 1 - 4 was it! Whilst on the subject of Led Zep; great studio band but bit of a let down live. Discuss!
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 16, 2012 21:54:23 GMT
Ah But Mr Musty Coda is not an official album as such . It was released after Zepp disbanded and it`s out takes etc. But we all know that . So . Not a Bad album I.M.O. As for live . Sadly Ive never seen them live together but as for The Song Remains The Same I went to see the film at the pictures in 78 That was me hooked I think along with Live At Leeds and Live And Dangerous it has to be one of the best live albums ever! Also The Led Zepp DVD is shear brilliance all 6 hours of it
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 16, 2012 23:18:45 GMT
For me, Led Zep were somewhat overrated as a live band in comparison to say The Who and Yes at their peak. My main gripe is with Page and Plant. Jones and Bonham were what made the band work live. I just found Page and Plants live performances underwhelming in comparison to them and to the reputation of the 'mighty Led Zeppelin'.
I think Plant is a great singer but he could not recreate his vocals live with Led Zeppelin to that of the studio versions. A case in point is Rock 'n' Roll. Live versions of this are let down by a Fred Zeppelin style vocal. Saying that, I recently went to see Robert Plant live with The Band of Joy and was blown away by his vocals. Live he's much more suited to this vocal style than the all out Zep tracks.
As for Page, his natural habitat is in the studio. Such an innovator on the guitar. For me, live, I find his solos boring and going nowhere. Too many notes lacking feel.
Songwriting, however, is another story and they deserve every bit of their reputation for this alone. My favourite Zep song is What is and what should never be. The dynamic change from verse to chorus just floors me every time I hear it.
I think this puts me on some sort of hit list for die had Zep fans now.
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 17, 2012 0:51:07 GMT
Alright. Let me weigh in here.
IMO, Plant peaked around 1970 for 'live' vocals. Just watch the 1969 Disc of the DVD. Very much everything he could do on the record. After that, he could do that kind of singing in short bursts in the studio and live, he had to, really, bring it down to where it was comfortable. I don't know if it's because he just blew his voice out over those early years or if his range is just lower than he was letting on.
The live DVD is a great entertaining package. Better than "The Song...". The live "How The West Was Won" CD is also a way better live album than "The Song..."
Let it be known that I have everything by them including a few live boots. However, I agree with Mean Mr. Mustard's comment that Jimmy Page's real home is in the studio. He crafted amazing albums and planned out amazing guitar solos that are/were a lot more colourful than his live playing, although the violin bow thing was a concert hi-lite.
Those 9 albums were the real legacy of the band, not the live stuff, although it was probably very impressive to go to a Zep concert. The live experience had it's best impact if you were there. But I still like to listen to the live stuff from time to time.
I'm a fan.
What a wishy-washy statement.
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 17, 2012 9:54:37 GMT
Yes, you're right Amadeus about Plants live vocals with Zeppelin peaking at 69 - 70. That black and white studio concert (in Sweden I think), after they had released Led Zep 1, is awesome. Plants vocals on this are truly great. Something must have happened some time after this because he never seemed to be able to convert that power to big concerts later on for me.
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 17, 2012 18:15:01 GMT
Well. I have said this many a time over the years Rush are I guess my fav rock band , seen them many many times But . Led Zeppelin in my opinion are a better band . Hard to say that when I hav`nt seen them But Zepp blew every rock band out of the water . They ruled America , broke every record for gigs . Even in 1979 when supposed Rock music was dead Zepp played 2 nights at Knebworth( A sorry tale why I didnt go , but my mates did !) 104,000 on the first night ! Then there was the O2 Arena gig in 2007 It would have been easier to get a Golden Ticket then a Zepp one . Not bad for a band who never had a hit record . I can not see Zepp not being not very good live with those kinda facts Just watch the Zepp DVD and you can see these boys were not your average rock band . In the Classic Rock mag some time ago they asked Geddy what album changed his life ? Answer Led Zeppelin 1 They wer`nt bad in the studio either . I would like to know who is better than Zepp live . Who ever it is . They have to better singer than Planty ? better than Page ?. Bonham ? Jonsey ! So they have done a few bad gigs , name me a band who hasn`t Love the Rush But I have to say Zepp are a few miles higher in my opinion
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 17, 2012 19:41:01 GMT
Oh dear! I've clearly offended you!
It's not really a case of who's better more Page and Plant could not recreate the level of performance live as they did in studio. Jones and Bonham could recreate it live and quite frankly if it wasn't for them they wouldn't have the live reputation they do have.
For the record off the top of my head, Townshend, Kossoff, Hendrix, Howe, Jeff Healy were/are much better live than Page ever was. For me, Paul Rodgers is a much better singer than Plant live in a similar genre.
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 17, 2012 21:18:09 GMT
Oh dear! I've clearly offended you! You will never offend me my friend They are only my opinions . So then Mr Musty who is better than Zepp ? As for Planty`s voice has not lasted the years of rock Check out the Unleaded in 1994 Bloody brilliant ! even Orgasmic ! I still cant believe I`m flying the flag for a band Ive never seen . Saw Dave today . Asked me to ask you if you ever fancy a day out in Manchester ! Sounds good to me .
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 18, 2012 0:04:38 GMT
It's a great vocal but he's hardly stretching himself vocally. This is what I'm talking about....
Original recorded Rock 'n' Roll from Led Zep 4
Song Remains The Same 1973
Live Aid (he has a go but don't give me no shit about Phil Collins because he's tight here)
2007 (I hate to break it to you but the whole key of the song has been dropped a whole tone i.e. instead of the song being played in the traditional A key it's now in G to compensate for Plants vocal range)
Non of the last three compare to the original recorded vocal. I hate being pedantic about this but I'm just trying to explain my point. Either something happened to Plant's vocal range 69 - 70 or he just got lucky on Led Zep 4 with a vocal take never to be repeated again. I love Plant as a singer but not the full on rock stuff live as it's a let down from the recorded versions.
I would love to come for a night out in Manchester with you guys. I've never had a decent night out there but this is because I don't know the best places to go as I've never been with anyone from the city. I think you have an idea now of the places I like to frequent!
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 18, 2012 12:17:37 GMT
Ok then I see your point . I will ask again . Zepp not the best live band in the world ( go even go there with the Stones !) But then who are the best live rock band the world ? You are lookin at Zepp performances as a musicans point of view . Which is a good thing . But imagine being at the front of the Madison Square Gardens in your late teens and watching Zepp perfoming Stairway To Heaven and most of with doubt the best rock album ever made Led Zepp 4 . For me at gigs it`s all down to how well they played , it`s all the rest of it like the crowd , the the lights show , the dry ice , the buzz of a playing playing a personal favourite of yours than you didn`t expect You get my drift . When I saw Page and Plant in 98 even though it was only haff of Zepp it still was a brilliant gig . 19 years on from the break up they still had that aura and I didn`t think about how Plant`s voice was on that that . It`s Robert Plant ! The guy out of the best rock band ever to walk this earth ! So then . Who are the best live rock band ? Mr Musty Oh yeh... As for Tank Top Phil . I do not like him what so ever and I can go into great detail why not . But not today. We will have sort out a day out then in sunny Manchester and show you sights . Or Pubs ...
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 18, 2012 15:46:16 GMT
I suppose I am looking at it from a musicians point of view.
The Who, for me, blow Led Zep away as a live band when both bands were at their peak. They were consistent both in the studio and on stage.
The Stones are musically the most overrated band ever. How they have got away with the title 'The Best Rock 'n' Roll band in the world' is beyond me. The best guitar player they ever had was Mick Taylor.
So, for me, The Who, Free or Yes are definitely in the top live bands of all time with The Who probably edging it.
My comment about Phil Collins was because Led Zep blamed him for their poor performance at Live Aid. Which is crap. Subsequently Led Zep would not allow the official release of their performance.
Pubs in Manchester sounds great!
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 18, 2012 18:21:28 GMT
I love Phil Collins. Not solo stuff but his time as Genesis drummer and front man was great. We can argue...
I love watching The Who live stuff. The Kids Are Alright DVD is wondrous. As far as putting on a show,,, one band that pioneered the stage presentation, Pink Floyd. The band that took it to the extreme; U2, particularly Zoo TV and Zooropa '92-'93.
The Stones were thin on the ground with great music in the '70s but they did put on a show. I love listening to Mick Taylor, especially, Sticky Fingers. His guitar work was just so smoooooth and buttery.
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 18, 2012 20:15:33 GMT
Yeh. The Who . I love The Who . I have seen them a few times and I do think they are one of the best rock bands ever . I can`t really slag off The Who The Kids Are Alright is a brilliant film . erm ... Yeh The Who . Right then Mr Musty . We will sort a day out in Manchester As for Tank Top Phil ! Exhibit No 1. Your Honour Ok how long was it before you turned it off ? And here is one that is very handy if you had a bit of a bender and just can`t throw up . Your Honour Exhibit No 2. Warning this is a nasty video .... Seriously !
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Post by mrmustard on Mar 19, 2012 12:38:06 GMT
Yep, really dull! Just a worked pop song the first one.
Funny thing was, I had never heard this song before. While I was playing it my wife to be asked why I was listening to Phil Collins? She knew it straight away!
I like Phil Collins early solo stuff, particularly his vocal style. I'll swear he had been listening to Mother off John Lennons Plastic Ono band album when he wrote In The Air Tonight and Take A Look At Me Now and also Mama. He's a great screamer!
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Post by Amadeus on Mar 19, 2012 14:01:43 GMT
Yes. And Mr. Kite, I did say "not the solo stuff". I mean Genesis. I admit there might be a few duff tracks in their catalogue but not many! His voice is great and I love his 'fine touch' style of drumming. My favorite drummer in fact.
Exhibit 1 M'lud
Exhibit 2 your Majesty
Exhibit 3 oh your nauseousness.
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Post by Mr Kite on Mar 19, 2012 19:30:01 GMT
I can`t even think of one song Solo or Genisis that I like when it has Phil singing (?) I have a very big love for Prog but not when it has Phil on board . Genisis died when Peter (God) Gabriel left . And died again when they did that terrible video I can`t dance . I just hate that man . Amadeus . How you ever typed that Tank Top is your fav drummer without having pulpatations , hot sweats , that kinda acid coming up your throat feeling and looking over your shoulder so not to die of embaressment in case you get found out ! I will never know ! I sure you must rate Neil (God )Peart just a little above his baldness ! Bonzo ! Bill Bruford ! Moooney ! Even Meg ! Me when I was 3 ! I am in shock , and stunned , and shocked . These are just my opinions And no matter how many boring half hour long no Gabriel Genesis songs you post I will never changed my mind ... Ever !
Exhibit 3. Yeh its that bad one (sic)
If I ever have a debate about Prog in Pubs or at work I always pray to the almighty that they don`t throw the "What about Genisis , they are Prog aint they ?" remark . Yeh . I will reply "Prog at it`s worst " I hate Phil And Buster is the pits of hell and what a waste of celluloid that was !
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