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Post by mrmustard on May 17, 2009 19:45:45 GMT
I have been re-listening to Double Fantasy a lot recently. Along with Plastic Ono Band and Imagine, I feel this is one of his best albums by far. The inclusion of Yoko's songs is what doesn't make the album work as a whole in my opinion. I think Yoko's stuff is all well and good for the people who like it but would be better placed just on her own albums. It's a shame Lennon didn't just make the album his own and added a few more songs (Nobody Told Me for example).
Does anyone have any views on this?
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inmylife
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 61
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Post by inmylife on May 18, 2009 11:01:00 GMT
Hi There ! With" Double Fantasy " , i n my opinion it,s a very good workman like album with John reconfirming to himself and the world where his values and priorities are at ,as we were approaching or rather entering a new decade. The melodies ,always a strong point with any of John,s material , are as good collectively as on any of his solo releases and can be best appreiciated on the unofficial acoustic cds currently on the market, as they stand up alone and unaided by production and technology . As for the inclusion of Yoko,s material , if it was John,s wish that it be included , well thats good enough reason for me !!! Though i must say that given the era and taking in to account the style of Yoko,s rendition of this self penned material, it , to me , was not out of place and i think if released by a younger more "marketable", artist would have done quite well !! My favourite solo album of John,s is, "Walls and Bridges ", a master piece ,Prime cut, A grade ,Top draw Brilliance !!
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Post by Bobber on May 18, 2009 19:31:25 GMT
One of the biggest musical disappointments in my young life. After the musical revolution of the late 70's, John came up with a mediocre song like Starting Over. And then it was his decision to team up with Yoko. They made an album together and her half of the songs is pretty bad if not unlistenable to my ears.
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Post by mrmustard on May 18, 2009 20:37:45 GMT
One of the biggest musical disappointments in my young life. After the musical revolution of the late 70's, John came up with a mediocre song like Starting Over. And then it was his decision to team up with Yoko. They made an album together and her half of the songs is pretty bad if not unlistenable to my ears. Starting Over taken out of the context of the album does come across as a bit namby pamby. This was released as the first single from the album I believe giving the impression all the album was like that, which it wasn't. I'm Losing You would have been a much better track to release as single and that would have thrown a different light on the album. I agree with you about Yoko's songs - I skip them. However everyone of John's is a very well executed and written track. When I first heard it in the eighties I was disappointed like you. I really thought John had lost it. However recently I have given it a lot of play and really understand it now. I really think the album stands up but on his songs alone.
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zipp
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 97
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Post by zipp on May 19, 2009 18:02:18 GMT
John's songs are good or OK but Yoko's are the usual rubbish.
She doesn't put her songs on John's compilations because she knows they wouldn't sell.
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Post by The End on May 20, 2009 22:11:51 GMT
OK, I'll take the flack..... I actually really liked Kiss Kiss Kiss and Walking on Thin Ice, which was from around the same time. I thought KKK was the most interesting and original tracks on the DF album - and not because of the heavy breathing exercises!
True, Yoko's other efforts on the album were forgettable, especially alongside John's tracks such as Watching The Wheels, Woman and Losing You - although, in my opinion, the Anthology version of LY is better, with (if I recall correctly) members of Cheap Trick supplying that much harder edge than the released version.
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Post by mrmustard on May 22, 2009 21:21:38 GMT
OK, I'll take the flack..... I actually really liked Kiss Kiss Kiss and Walking on Thin Ice, which was from around the same time. I thought KKK was the most interesting and original tracks on the DF album - and not because of the heavy breathing exercises! True, Yoko's other efforts on the album were forgettable, especially alongside John's tracks such as Watching The Wheels, Woman and Losing You - although, in my opinion, the Anthology version of LY is better, with (if I recall correctly) members of Cheap Trick supplying that much harder edge than the released version. Oh well, someone's got to like Kiss Kiss Kiss! Seriously, I think her stuff is fine on it's own album. She had actually influenced a lot of other female singers - Toni Basil being one example cites her as an influence. I just think her songs grate against John's on the same album and you kind of wish they weren't on their. I totally agree with you on I'm Losing You. The anthology version was way better than the Double Fantasy version. Watching The Wheels is way up there with anything he done on Walls and Bridges, Imagine and Plastic Ono in my opinion, it's just a bit more 'poppy' sounding but the underlying song is brilliant. The vocal is Lennon in top form. His songs are so consistently good on this album. Overall he has had the better solo output compared to Paul, who's only real consistent album is Band On The Run. (oh no, now I'm in for flack!)
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Post by Bobber on Jun 9, 2009 7:49:44 GMT
(oh no, now I'm in for flack!) Yes you are. John's solo output was not really good, was it? POB and Imagine are decent albums, but he seems to struggle after that. Paul has had his ups and downs, but overall I prefer his output. Nah, it's comparing Lennon and McCartney again. But you started it!
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 9, 2009 20:25:55 GMT
Yes you are. John's solo output was not really good, was it? POB and Imagine are decent albums, but he seems to struggle after that. Paul has had his ups and downs, but overall I prefer his output. Nah, it's comparing Lennon and McCartney again. But you started it! What a load of old crap! Although both Lennon and McCartney lacked consistency throughout their solo careers, Lennon on a song for song basis came the closest to the quality of his Beatles output than McCartney ever did (with the definite exception of May Be I'm Amazed, Tomorrow, Band On The Run). McCartney has nearly 40 years of solo material against Lennon's 7 or 8 years. In this short time Lennon has produced material every bit as good as McCartney (and in my opinion better) yet it's taken McCartney 40 years to produce a comparable solo output. I think that says it all really.
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Post by Bobber on Jun 10, 2009 9:49:22 GMT
Sorry, but it isn't crap. Apparently we disagree.
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
Posts: 606
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Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 10, 2009 11:17:33 GMT
If we think that most of Lennon's solo output was less than average, you can refer to him as a Flawed Genius!
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 10, 2009 20:13:34 GMT
Sorry, but it isn't crap. Apparently we disagree. Apparently so (40:7). So what in your opinion constitutes a good solo song by Lennon (if any) and a good one by McCartney?
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Jun 11, 2009 0:36:58 GMT
Sorry, but it isn't crap. Apparently we disagree. Apparently so (40:7). So what in your opinion constitutes a good solo song by Lennon (if any) and a good one by McCartney? One could put "Cook of the House" up against anything. One could! But seriously, there are a whole lot of really good McCartney songs on Wingspan. The whole Ram album is pretty much top class. And Chaos and Creation had at least one or two of his nicest love songs ever ("Follow Me", "This Never Happened Before"), and that song "Friends to Go" is good enough for a Beatles album, IMO. A lot of John's songs after POB (which I love) just seemed so thin I guess is a word that somewhat describes how I feel about them. Even on the Imagine album, Oh Yoko, even Jealous Guy seem kind of ... just not quite there. A lot of it is the production, I think, strings all over the f'in place. His voice had kind of thinned out a lot too. I do love "Watching the Wheels", and "I'm Losing You", but then you get to "Woman", and it's back to the elevator music. All this coming from someone who cannot say anything but John was a god in the Beatles. Just my opinion, you did ask, MMM!
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Post by Bobber on Jun 11, 2009 7:45:19 GMT
Thanks for filling in the blanks, alexis.
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 11, 2009 14:32:16 GMT
I'm not denying there are a lot of good solo McCartney tracks. I just feel that Lennons solo output was overall better than McCartneys especially considering the timespan he actually did release solo material. There is an honesty and directness to Lennons solo work which I find more appealing, in the main, to McCartneys. I really believe Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Walls and Bridges and Double Fantasy (John's tracks) are great albums that easily stand up to McCartneys best solo output and eclipse them. Lennons other albums are patchy to say the least but there are gems to be found on each e.g. Woman Is The Nigger of The World is very underrated in my opinion.
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Jun 11, 2009 18:29:23 GMT
I'm not denying there are a lot of good solo McCartney tracks. I just feel that Lennons solo output was overall better than McCartneys especially considering the timespan he actually did release solo material. There is an honesty and directness to Lennons solo work which I find more appealing, in the main, to McCartneys. I really believe Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Walls and Bridges and Double Fantasy (John's tracks) are great albums that easily stand up to McCartneys best solo output and eclipse them. Lennons other albums are patchy to say the least but there are gems to be found on each e.g. Woman Is The Nigger of The World is very underrated in my opinion. To quote one of my favorite lines of John's: It's so hard!* I mean to compare. Paul was the crowd pleaser, and John was satisfied standing naked before the world, saying "Take me as I am"*. Quite literally, actually, re: 2V! *How did he get away with this? And then "Come Together", complete with groans and climaxing guitar run (that makes its way back down when all is said and done). It's like he's still a little schoolboy seeing how much he can get away with. Like in "Girl" ... what exactly are the background voices saying when he sings "When she says she's looking good ..."?
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 12, 2009 10:38:45 GMT
To quote one of my favorite lines of John's: It's so hard!* I mean to compare. Paul was the crowd pleaser, and John was satisfied standing naked before the world, saying "Take me as I am"*. Quite literally, actually, re: 2V! *How did he get away with this? And then "Come Together", complete with groans and climaxing guitar run (that makes its way back down when all is said and done). It's like he's still a little schoolboy seeing how much he can get away with. Like in "Girl" ... what exactly are the background voices saying when he sings "When she says she's looking good ..."? You are right, there are definite sexual connotations in a lot of John's songs if you interpret them that way. Come Together for example, John's story is he wrote it as a campaign song for when Timothy Leary ran for Governor. That fell through so John carried the song on for himself. It's a blues song and lots of blues songs are overtly sexual. Lennon has clearly pushed the sex on this one but what's wrong with that? From conception it was a sleazy blues song (but a great one) so why not push it to the extreme. If he intended it to sound like an orgasm then he has done a pretty good job because you believe it is! 'It's Hard' - well I don't think he was trying to get away with anything there. To live, to love, to be somebody (especially Lennon) it is hard but it doesn't mean you're walking round with a stiffy all the time. I think you are stretching the point somewhat there. Girl - of course it was 'tit'. Clearly Lennon was having a laugh with some lyrics and seeing what he could get away with but that does not overshadow the great songs he wrote.
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Jun 13, 2009 6:33:35 GMT
To quote one of my favorite lines of John's: It's so hard!* I mean to compare. Paul was the crowd pleaser, and John was satisfied standing naked before the world, saying "Take me as I am"*. Quite literally, actually, re: 2V! *How did he get away with this? And then "Come Together", complete with groans and climaxing guitar run (that makes its way back down when all is said and done). It's like he's still a little schoolboy seeing how much he can get away with. Like in "Girl" ... what exactly are the background voices saying when he sings "When she says she's looking good ..."? You are right, there are definite sexual connotations in a lot of John's songs if you interpret them that way. Come Together for example, John's story is he wrote it as a campaign song for when Timothy Leary ran for Governor. That fell through so John carried the song on for himself. It's a blues song and lots of blues songs are overtly sexual. Lennon has clearly pushed the sex on this one but what's wrong with that? From conception it was a sleazy blues song (but a great one) so why not push it to the extreme. If he intended it to sound like an orgasm then he has done a pretty good job because you believe it is! 'It's Hard' - well I don't think he was trying to get away with anything there. To live, to love, to be somebody (especially Lennon) it is hard but it doesn't mean you're walking round with a stiffy all the time. I think you are stretching the point somewhat there. Girl - of course it was 'tit'. Clearly Lennon was having a laugh with some lyrics and seeing what he could get away with but that does not overshadow the great songs he wrote. Hey, MMM, my being shallow and easily amused, I find that it actually enhances the great songs he wrote!
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 13, 2009 9:40:26 GMT
Hey, MMM, my being shallow and easily amused, I find that it actually enhances the great songs he wrote! I agree!
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Post by The End on Jun 25, 2009 10:55:59 GMT
it doesn't mean you're walking round with a stiffy all the time. I think you are stretching the point somewhat there. Hee hee!!!!
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