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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 5, 2008 16:15:29 GMT
Since the "Experts" couldn't answer this question, I ask all of you:
The song is regularly played in F. But then it was played in G, extremely high notes for Paul to sing. Do you know the reason of this change?
I don't know if this is because in Help!, the guitar is tuned in D instead of E and so that was an inconvenient. Or is there any other reason?
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 5, 2008 19:27:38 GMT
Since the "Experts" couldn't answer this question, I ask all of you: The song is regularly played in F. But then it was played in G, extremely high notes for Paul to sing. Do you know the reason of this change? I don't know if this is because in Help!, the guitar is tuned in D instead of E and so that was an inconvenient. Or is there any other reason? I think that's a great question! My first thought was the same as yours. But then after I got to thinking about it, more convenient for whom? I mean, if Paul was playing a 6-string on stage there, we could say it would be more convenient for him to play it in G - the fingering and chording would then be the same as on the recording, and he wouldn't have to think so much about it as long as he could sing the higher notes (which he showed he could). But, he was playing bass on stage, not 6-string, so he wasn't having to worry about different chording for the G vs F. And since the other guys hadn't played on the original recording anyway, it doesn't seem like it would make any difference to them whether they played in G or F. So, I can't think of a good reason either! Maybe Paul always wanted to sing it in G, but George Martin talked him into tuning down a whole note in the studio for some reason. BTW, to my ear, it seems like it's not quite up to key of G, maybe more F#, but maybe that's just the youtube process. Maybe someone else can help with the answer. Is there anything written about the original recording session that might help with this?
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Post by Bobber on Nov 5, 2008 19:28:33 GMT
The song was probably originally played in F because it was only a guitar and strings. When played live, it came with more guitar, bass and drums. The problem may be in the bass: there is a possibility that Paul couldn't play the lowest notes on the bass, so they transformed it to G. Another option is that the song was originally played in F to make it easier for the string quartet. Just thoughts here tho.
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Post by mrmustard on Nov 5, 2008 19:34:20 GMT
I'm a bit confused by your question. On my version of Live in Japan 1966 Help isn't even on the album. My version is by Contact Records.
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Post by Bobber on Nov 5, 2008 19:40:19 GMT
We're talking about Yesterday, which was on the UK album Help!
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Post by mrmustard on Nov 5, 2008 19:59:37 GMT
Doh! Sorry. I thought you mean't that the guitars on the song Help had for some bizzare reason been re-tuned for the Japan performance. It's been a long day..........
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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 5, 2008 21:00:12 GMT
I don't think that Paul would've prefferd to sing it in G. You can notice that he has to scream in some parts. When playing it in F, his voice suits perfectly well (no screams needed). I mean, he doesn't scream to the point where his voice cracks or it's not sound appealing but Yesterday is a calm song which it's supposed to be sang smoothly.
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 6, 2008 2:01:01 GMT
The song was probably originally played in F because it was only a guitar and strings. When played live, it came with more guitar, bass and drums. The problem may be in the bass: there is a possibility that Paul couldn't play the lowest notes on the bass, so they transformed it to G. Another option is that the song was originally played in F to make it easier for the string quartet. Just thoughts here tho. I think you may be on to something with the strings bit, maybe they have a hard time playing in F key? Any stringers around here? But the bass can play a low F as easily as a low G, and no reason to live way down there anyway, without relooking at the video I'd guess he's up a few strings/frets. It really is a good question, I agree he does seem to strain a bit more on that high G than the F of the record (understandably!).
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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 6, 2008 10:06:35 GMT
I agree... and I think that F is not a problem for the strings.
I played it on my bass a few times and there is no problem with that.
So, this is something that really intrigues me. Nowhere Man was also moved one tone upwards (from D to E) during 1966..
Here you can hear both of them one tone up at the Cricus Krone in Munich:
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 6, 2008 17:09:02 GMT
I agree... and I think that F is not a problem for the strings. I played it on my bass a few times and there is no problem with that. So, this is something that really intrigues me. Nowhere Man was also moved one tone upwards (from D to E) during 1966.. Here you can hear both of them one tone up at the Cricus Krone in Munich: Great show, blueblackbird! Can't explain why they go up two half steps again, no violins to implicate on Nowwhere Man. As an aside or two, I noticed that even though this was apparently quite late in their live career, when they were reportedly SO TIRED of playing live, it looked like they were really enjoying themselves. I'm guessing being back in Germany was just a nice thing for them. Also, man could they sing! The way they started Nowhere man was beautiful. No fear ...
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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 6, 2008 17:54:24 GMT
Paul also forgets the words of Yesterday and I'm down he might have been high or nervous haha
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 6, 2008 18:40:29 GMT
Paul also forgets the words of Yesterday and I'm down he might have been high or nervous haha Yeah, I wish the camera had been focusing on Paul when he messed up "I'm down", instead of Ringo. I'll cast my vote for choice A) - 8 miles high!
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larosh
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 77
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Post by larosh on Nov 7, 2008 2:41:04 GMT
As a string player, I'd say that for the most part it doesn't really matter what key it's in. I pretty much figured that it's because they're playing it with just the band, and not the strings. If he were performing with the string recording, they could just have an acoustic guitar put to the side that's tuned a step down. But since they're using the same instruments they do the rest of the show with, it would be inconvenient to retune for one song. That only really affects the guitar parts and not the bass, right? Then again, that's a good point about the bass. He'd have to be thinking more about that to make sure that was a step above what it usually is. Then again, if they had played it in F, they still would have had to refigure the fingering to an E tuned guitar even if Paul wasn't the one playing it. One way you don't have to change the bass, the other you don't have to change the guitar. Wouldn't the bass be easier to transpose in the long run (this coming from my very tiny guitar skills)? Doesn't rule out him being high though.
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 7, 2008 4:49:12 GMT
I'm more of a keyboard player, so I'll ask you accomplished guitarists - why not play Yesterday in the key of F live, instead of G? I'm a sucky guitarist, so F is harder for me to play, but surely at that stage of their career they wouldn't care one way or another?
BTW - isn't Nowhere Man in E on the record as well?
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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 7, 2008 10:34:08 GMT
It's not hard to play it in F I can play it in both keys without any difficulty, so I assume that they could aswell...
Nowhere Man is recorded in D.
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larosh
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 77
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Post by larosh on Nov 8, 2008 7:00:35 GMT
It's not hard to play it in F I can play it in both keys without any difficulty, so I assume that they could aswell... Thanks for that clarification. I'm a bit like alexis and I would probably find it harder since I haven't been playing guitar long (as evidenced by the fact that the only version of the song I've had time to learn is the chords in C from an easy guitar book...I'm definitely learning a more accurate version when this thing called school ends for winter). So...were they just playing it in G to...play it in G? For the heck of it? I think the over-thinking warning light has come on in my brain.
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Post by blueblackbird on Nov 8, 2008 15:19:56 GMT
the thing is that Yesterday is played in F in Help! album... but the guitar is detuned one tone down, so when they play it in G they are really playing it in F
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 8, 2008 18:03:07 GMT
the thing is that Yesterday is played in F in Help! album... but the guitar is detuned one tone down, so when they play it in G they are really playing it in F Yes, but in my mind, the question is why not play it in F on stage (not tuned down)? I agree about that overthinking warning light ...
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larosh
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 77
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Post by larosh on Nov 8, 2008 20:16:41 GMT
the thing is that Yesterday is played in F in Help! album... but the guitar is detuned one tone down, so when they play it in G they are really playing it in F Yes, but in my mind, the question is why not play it in F on stage (not tuned down)? I agree about that overthinking warning light ... Yeah, that's my question as well: how easy is it to play it in F without tuning down? When I'm obsessed with something (which I currently am) the people/characters to invade my head...and right now the little Paul in my head is laughing his ass off at me. Yes, I'm very strange. I used to put Luke Skywalker in my IM conversations when I was bored (oh wait, I still do that).
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Nov 8, 2008 21:26:26 GMT
Yes, but in my mind, the question is why not play it in F on stage (not tuned down)? I agree about that overthinking warning light ... Yeah, that's my question as well: how easy is it to play it in F without tuning down? Based on the fact that I can do it pretty easily, and I suck on guitar, I'd say it's easy to play it in F without tuning down. Now, only good guitarists can answer, is the voicing better if it's tuned down (by that I mean, are the chord positions on the fretboard somehow "better" if it's if it's played in G, but tuned down to F)? When I'm obsessed with something (which I currently am) the people/characters to invade my head...and right now the little Paul in my head is laughing his ass off at me. Yes, I'm very strange. I used to put Luke Skywalker in my IM conversations when I was bored (oh wait, I still do that).
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