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Post by mrmustard on Jul 12, 2015 19:37:02 GMT
Here's a good discussion thread about Dave Dexter Jr. For those of you who don't know, he was the guy at Capitol records in America who was responsible for turning down The Beatles first four singles for release by Capitol - whom EMI actually owned! When he had no choice but to get behind them because of the impact of I Want To Hold Your Hand, he actively went out of his way to sabotage Beatles records with poor EQ and excessive reverb. Just weeks after Lennons murder he wrote an article that was published in an American music trade magazine in which he ripped into Lennon, slagging him off big time. Other members (probably American or Canadian) may have a different take on him. forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/dave-dexter-jr-capitol-records-beatles-questions-and-some-answers.15422/
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 13, 2015 14:37:37 GMT
I don't know about sabotage, it looks to me like maximizing profits. For The Beatles 2 albums and singles, he'd make three or four albums including the singles. The albums were generally 25 or so minutes. And if the '3rd' album was lacking he'd ask parlophone to send over any song to pad it out whether it was a final mix or not. And he never waited for final stereo or mono mixes if he needed to push out a release tomorrow. The catalog is riddled with stereo tracks folded down to mono or mono tracks tricked up into fake stereo.
And the reverb! I was shocked the first time I heard the 'real' versions of I Feel Fine and She's A Woman.
Beatlemania was built up into a hysteria over here that I don't believe was matched anywhere else. Or was at least just different from anywhere else. And these particular albums with the reverb and running order are what was burnt into our minds and what we associate with the hysteria. So we love them!
Admittedly that only applies to us who grew up before the 1987 'correction'. After a time, the UK albums begin to sound like the 'proper' albums but I still like Beatles '65 more than Beatles For Sale.
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 15:25:32 GMT
I was expecting your response on the Dexter story Amadeus.
He openly stated he didn't like The Beatles sound and he was entirely responsible for turning down The Beatles first four singles. He also turned down about 99% of all songs EMI tried to put out through Capitol. The few he did put out where things like Mrs Mills and Jimmy Shand (?? Someone like that at least). It's as if he actively did not want to promote anything new from England or anything that would compete with American pop and wanted American record buyers to have a particular preconceived idea of British music.
You seem quite fond of him!
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Post by pothos on Jul 13, 2015 16:24:02 GMT
It seems strange to read about the Billboard article a week after John death and I have a memory like a sieve but was there ever plans for a 11 song McCartney LP pushing the rest of the band to the background.
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 13, 2015 17:25:39 GMT
It's as if he actively did not want to promote anything new from England or anything that would compete with American pop and wanted American record buyers to have a particular preconceived idea of British music. You seem quite fond of him! That sounds true. I don't think I'm fond of his work because We never knew it was intended to be anything different. When the Beatles came to America, we had Fabian and surf music. And there was usually lots of reverb on that stuff. You listen to stuff by Dion, like 'Hats Off To Larry' or Freddie Cannon's 'Tallahassie Lassie' there's lots of reverb. For some reason that was a popular sound and it's in our DNA now. So am I fond of him? Reading his story in hindsight,,,, no. He came across as slightly xeno-phobic as far as entertainment goes. But history is what it is and I still like what I grew up with. BUTTT, I'm Canadian and we got all the stuff on Capitol here from the beginning. 'Twist and Shout' which was an edited version of Please Please Me, Beatlmania which is With The Beatles, and Long Tall Sally which is some singles, ep's and some songs from Beatlemania!!! But as I mentioned, Any fan here born after 1987 would find 'our' albums strange.
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 13, 2015 17:26:05 GMT
It seems strange to read about the Billboard article a week after John death and I have a memory like a sieve but was there ever plans for a 11 song McCartney LP pushing the rest of the band to the background. I had never heard of that.
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 17:37:13 GMT
That's right, Capitol of Canada released a lot of stuff before America got on board and partly responsible for The Beatles eventual success in America. In fact, wasn't Love Me Do released there in early1963?
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 17:38:48 GMT
It seems strange to read about the Billboard article a week after John death and I have a memory like a sieve but was there ever plans for a 11 song McCartney LP pushing the rest of the band to the background. You mean Dave Dexter wanted to release the LP?
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Post by Bongo on Jul 13, 2015 18:36:30 GMT
,
Here's a sample, but if you listen to the Capitol CD box sets from 2004-2006 Vol. 1 & 2, you will hear the true dexterized version of the Beatles recording!
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Post by ROCKY on Jul 13, 2015 19:18:16 GMT
You know back in the day, a way a man wore his hair and the clothes he wore said alot about him. Does this look like someone that would like the Beatles back then? But then again you could say Brian Epstein had short hair and wore a suit, but Brian didn't wear his hair military style, which tells me this guy was rather anti-Beatle. He probably loved it when Lennon got in trouble for that anti-Christ fiesco! *Also can anyone find his "Nobody's Perfect' Billboard article? I'd like to read it.
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 21:15:51 GMT
You know back in the day, a way a man wore his hair and the clothes he wore said alot about him. Does this look like someone that would like the Beatles back then? But then again you could say Brian Epstein had short hair and wore a suit, but Brian didn't wear his hair military style, which tells me this guy was rather anti-Beatle. He probably loved it when Lennon got in trouble for that anti-Christ fiesco! View Attachment*Also can anyone find his "Nobody's Perfect' Billboard article? I'd like to read it. Dexter was probably behind the 'Bigger Than Jesus' campaign! Wouldn't surprise me if he paid off those girls you see jumping on Beatles records and tearing up posters! Anyway Rocky, it's the best I can find of the article at the moment. When I paste it as a direct link it doesn't go directly to the article. Don't know why. You will need to copy below and paste it into you browser. books.google.co.uk/books?id=GyUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PT29&dq=Billboard+dave+dexter+%22Nobody's+Perfect.&pg=PT29&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Billboard%20dave%20dexter%20%22Nobody's%20Perfect.&f=false
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Post by pothos on Jul 13, 2015 22:04:41 GMT
The more I follow this thread the more bewildered I become. Martin engineered such a clean sharp signature sound that I have always associated with the Beatles. I cannot get my head around the fact that other people remixed his monumental contribution let alone the output of the band who seemed to take immense care and pride in their song writing craft. I don't get it.
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 22:21:07 GMT
It's a case of Capitol, or rather Dexter, thought he knew better. He thought he knew how American record buyers wanted to hear The Beatles. Either that or he consciously tried to create a poor recording as he was cornered into getting behind The Beatles in America (Amadeus doesn't agree with this theory!). He refused to release their first four singles on Capitol America but because of the huge ground swell of The Beatles in America via Veejay, Swan, Tollie, Capitol of Canada etc he had to get behind them as Capitol clearly stood to gain a lot of money by doing so.
The crazy thing was EMI owned Capitol in America.
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Post by pothos on Jul 13, 2015 22:49:04 GMT
I can't get over how little control The Beatles had over their output.
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Post by mrmustard on Jul 13, 2015 22:57:09 GMT
Or how little control EMI had over a company they actually owned!
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Post by ROCKY on Jul 14, 2015 15:25:18 GMT
Thank you for the Billboard link mrm! Appreciate that! I use to get Billboard all the time back then and never seen that article until now! Or even heard about it! In a way it always agrees with what I'm thinking when an old politician dies and everyone says how great he was and I always want just one guy to come up and say "he was a prick!" lol But in Lennon's case Dexter should have waited awhile if he wanted to release that article..... maybe 10 years.
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Post by ROCKY on Jul 14, 2015 15:40:58 GMT
I can't get over how little control The Beatles had over their output. Probably in the beginning as all artists do, they care about how there music is put out. But then after awhile of bitching to a wall about it, you really don't care what the companies do. It then becomes a job and not fun anymore, 4 albums a year 10 or 12 songs an album. I always heard of all the good stuff Capitol and Columbia (Dylan) had in their vaults and never released it. Now they release it 40 years later (Dylan's bootleg series) and no one gives a s*it!!
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 14, 2015 15:43:35 GMT
I believe that it was true that Dexter was 'cornered' into releasing Beatles records but when he gave in, I think he figured, "Well, let's maximise all the profit we can from the buggers", divide two albums into three and make 'em sound reverby because Americans like surf music and Phil Spector.
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 14, 2015 15:45:56 GMT
The more I follow this thread the more bewildered I become. Martin engineered such a clean sharp signature sound that I have always associated with the Beatles. I cannot get my head around the fact that other people remixed his monumental contribution let alone the output of the band who seemed to take immense care and pride in their song writing craft. I don't get it. back then, pop music wasn't art. It was business. It was disposable. It was for the execs to do with as they pleased because 'these guys won't be around next year'.
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 14, 2015 15:49:24 GMT
That's right, Capitol of Canada released a lot of stuff before America got on board and partly responsible for The Beatles eventual success in America. In fact, wasn't Love Me Do released there in early1963? Yep. Love Me Do - Feb '63. And here's a good one - My Bonnie - April '62 Again, who bought it and who was the target audience? Where was it advertised?
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