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Post by bluemeaniepaul74 on May 28, 2014 22:42:38 GMT
I apologise if this has been covered before, but what are your thoughts about Yoko's offerings on 'Double Fantasy'? I know after its release it was negatively received by most critics, then just 3 weeks later after John's untimely death the album goes to the top of the charts. So what was it that the critics initially found a turn off about DF? For me there can only be one answer, Yoko's songs!!! As far as I'm concerned her material on this and the stuff later used on 'Milk and Honey' should have appeared exclusively on an album of her own, and by the same token the likes of I'm stepping out, I don't wanna face it, Nobody told me, Borrowed Time, Grow old with me should have appeared on DF and made John's return from self imposed exile even greater than it was. I'm sorry if some of you are Yoko fans but I just find her stuff painful to listen to and I reach for the hi-fi remote between John songs on both albums.
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Post by mrmustard on May 28, 2014 22:58:29 GMT
I completely agree with Gary. I think all of John's songs are excellent on Double Fantasy. In contrast I find Yoko's (or Yo as you have referred to her!) off putting and out of place, bringing the album down. Like you say, take Yoko's out and add all those others from Milk and Honey etc and you have one hell off an album. I know some people round here find the album too soppy but the songs are very strong.
As an aside, if it wasn't for Yoko's influence on the album ( and John) we would have got the Cheap Trick version of I'm Losing You, which is awesome. Although in the final analysis I'm not sure which version I prefer!
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Post by ROCKY on May 28, 2014 23:41:34 GMT
I always thought John was always trying to push Yoko down our throats as a singer like she was way ahead of her time, but the fact is, and I'm sure everyone will agree, if it wasn't for John no one would care one ioda at what the hell Yoko was doing with her career. I remember after John died Yoko was planning a little concert tour and she started it off by doing a concert in Paris and I think only 100 people showed up killing the rest of bookings for concert dates. lol I think that's the last we heard of Yoko 'trying' to sing.
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Post by bluemeaniepaul74 on May 29, 2014 14:36:06 GMT
I agree with the 'Cheap Trick' comment Mr M, I'd take that version over the Double Fantasy one any day. I didn't know it was Yoko's meddling that led to it being omitted from the album, it just goes to prove; A) The scope of her musicality (yes it is actually a word! ) B) The hold she had over John!!!
Let me just make it clear, I'm not out to bash Yoko by any means, it's just that as Rocky said, if it wasn't for John nobody would have cared about her musical aspirations, and where Double Fantasy is concerned....shoehorning her throwaway songs amongst John's beautiful pieces is like hanging a crayon drawing of a turd in between a couple of Da Vinci paintings!!! That may have been a little harsh....ah well!
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Post by Bongo on May 29, 2014 19:26:35 GMT
Who's John? That Yoko chick can sing!
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Post by Amadeus on May 29, 2014 20:47:11 GMT
Well,,,,, my musical tastes are pretty catholic in scope (not religious) and I have a few Yoko albums. And I like them.(!!!)
However, the idea with the Double Fantasy and Milk and Honey set was their whole being married for 10 years thing. BUT, commercially and artistically, it does nothing to further John's career. I remember being a bit disappointed by the album because there were so few John songs and a whole lotta Yoko songs. We were waiting for a bloody John Lennon album, not a modern 'Sometime In NYC' hybrid.
Starting Over and Woman were the top 40 radio songs at the time (over here anyway) but after the murder, the record exploded. But interestingly it was the Lennon songs that got played. It exploded in that all the rest of the songs by John became well know.
But over all, without the 'event', it was a disappointing record. And Beatles fans weren't afraid to say so. We did think that he was going to come back as a punk/new waver. Imagine our surprise....
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Post by pothos on May 30, 2014 9:19:04 GMT
I am almost afraid to ask this but do Beatles fans believe that Yoko damaged John's career. What is the perceived wisdom on Linda and Paul.
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Post by ROCKY on May 30, 2014 13:31:57 GMT
I am almost afraid to ask this but do Beatles fans believe that Yoko damaged John's career. What is the perceived wisdom on Linda and Paul. I don't think she damaged his career, I think it was just the opposite. For whatever he seen in her, he was a train wreck without her. And I think Linda was Paul's soul mate. I think John/Yoko and Paul/Linda both would still be together to this day if it wasn't for the forces of nature, fate (or whatever you want to call it).
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Post by bluemeaniepaul74 on Jul 4, 2014 16:39:20 GMT
:
Anybody catch Yoko's Glastonbury performance last week? If so, what are your thoughts?
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Post by Amadeus on Jul 4, 2014 21:51:50 GMT
Didn't catch it. Judging by the clip you got there, it seems that, since she's pushing 80, the vocal histrionics aren't as extreme as the song used to call for in the days of yore. Anyway, I do like that period of her music, '69-'70. Although the screeching eventually wears on me. But the chaos of side 2 of 'Live Peace...' and her 'Plastic Ono Band' really hits the spot for me. Clapton and Lennon sort of doing Sonic Youth a decade earlier.
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Post by ROCKY on Jul 5, 2014 0:05:00 GMT
Don't Worry Kyoko your Mom doesn't know when to quit.
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henryj
For A Number Of Things
Posts: 792
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Post by henryj on Aug 26, 2014 23:21:27 GMT
"We did think that he was going to come back as a punk/new waver."
I remember hearing an interview where he said he liked disco. But this was in the mid-'70s, when it was newer.
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Post by Amadeus on Aug 27, 2014 22:55:32 GMT
Well OK yeah,,,, I did something that I haven't done since (NOT an exaggeration) the '80's; I listened To DOUBLE FANTASY from stem to stern! It was not too bad. Especially as DESH said, Yoko's new wavey influenced numbers.
It is an interesting album. But I can see a difference in John's songs compared to Yoko's. John comes across as a very contented, 'happy to stay at home' sort of guy, no new musical ground broken here, and Yoko sounds like the one who's happy to be 'out there' doing stuff. I think it was a pretty accurate picture as to where each of them were personally at that specific time. I wonder if John would've started coming back to life a bit though in the '80's because Yoko was already leaving him behind musically.
I then went through some more John and Yoko albums. Milk and Honey is more of the same but an unfinished project or sequel. I like LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO. Side two, aside from Yoko's vocal hysterics, John, Eric and Klaus were doing Sonic Youth 11 or 12 years before Sonic Youth.
Some Time In NYC has weak songs on it. I like 'Woman is....', 'Sisters oh Sisters', 'Luck Of The Irish' and 'We're All Water'. Those ones are quality to me BUT the album is not helped at all by what I consider to be Phil Spector's worst ever production job ever ever! I actually like the live record of NYC but it sounds atrocious! Terrible. Besides, side 4 is better heard on Zappa's own 'Playground Psychotics'. A little more of an accurate picture as to what was happening on stage with the Mothers. You can actually hear Flo and Eddie.
Two Virgins is hilarious. Life With The Lyons is interesting The Wedding Album is dire.
Thank you.
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Post by oldswanrory on Mar 25, 2015 18:38:13 GMT
I am not a big fan of John (Don't hit me) But I like his songs on this album.
Yoko - Oh Dear, springs to mind.
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Post by Mr Kite on Jun 13, 2015 19:13:03 GMT
Yoko spoils it.
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 14, 2015 0:29:42 GMT
She spoils Live Peace In Toronto big time too. Legendary performance that, ruined by wailing and squawking.
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Post by bluemeaniepaul74 on Jun 14, 2015 8:48:46 GMT
It's not wailing and squawking, it's Art....isn't it?
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Post by mrmustard on Jun 14, 2015 9:00:06 GMT
It's not wailing and squawking, it's Art....isn't it? Not when it's over Yer Blues or other classic rock 'n' roll songs it isn't. I don't mind so much when it's a specific piece performed/written with the wailing in mind but to basically just sing any old shit over songs that where never meant to be like this is wrong. That could earn me an ban!
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