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Post by pothos on Jan 12, 2014 16:51:49 GMT
Does anyone know if the story about Mona making a fortune from betting her jewels on the Horse Never say Die was true.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 12, 2014 16:57:36 GMT
Yes, I believe this is true. I have read this story a number of times.
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Post by Mr Kite on Jan 12, 2014 17:23:02 GMT
I never heard that . Do you think if it was`nt for Mona writing to Granada there would have never been any Beatles ? or maybe National Service carried on a bit longer . Ifs and Buts .
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 12, 2014 17:39:33 GMT
Paul was good at writing to people for promoting the band. National service may have screwed the band but I don't believe the efforts of Mona would have made a significant difference if she hadn't of been around. Remember, no one in London had heard of The Beatles despite what Mona did. The Beatles got big because they secured a recording contract based on George Martin's opinion on their personalities and raw talent. The other factor was his belief in Brian Epsteins belief that they were going to be big. Neither of which can be attributed to Mona.
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Post by Amadeus on Jan 12, 2014 21:12:48 GMT
She did provide a place for them to play. Because there was no one else. At any rate, if the family has the facts right (you would think) here is the story from The Beatles True Beginnings by Roag, Pete and Rory Best:
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 12, 2014 22:17:17 GMT
Hey Amadeus. Good of you to post! I think you have referenced this book before and showed pages of it (May be!). Looks a great book. Despite the great things she did for the band, ultimately they still would have made it without her.
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Post by pothos on Jan 12, 2014 23:24:42 GMT
I cannot get my head around how young the UK rock scene was during this period. The Sound of Fury was only released in 1960. Clubs such as the Casbah and the Morgue were essentially DIY venues. The Cavern was essentially a Jazz club until the scene emerged from the ground up. Bill Harry, Sam Leach, Alan Williams and Hamburg all to a greater or lesser extent helped the scene grow.
I would love to know what was the defining moment when the Beatles really decided to knuckle down and go for stardom. Add to that they were charismatic good musicians and fantastic songwriters and I get why they hit big. Interesting period that went from light entertainment to rock and roll then commercial Avant guard and all that in just over a decade.
Why the contemporises of the Beatles from Liverpool did not get even close to their level fascinates me as well.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 13, 2014 0:07:34 GMT
There probably were a ton of groups at the time that were better players than the Beatles! But the one thing that set them apart from every other group was that they had their own material. Plain and simple. I remember when they came back from Hamburg the one time they all went their separate ways, disgusted with each other, the music and everything else. About a month later they found they all couldn't live without it and got back together. I think it was at that moment that they had it in their heads they were going to knuckle down and make it! And of course all the planets had to be inline.lol And about Mona hitting it BIG on a race horse, reminded me of reading an interview one time in '64 when they came back to Liverpool from America and a reporter asked John how it now felt to have all this money and FAME and he said people just treated him like he hit the lottery and that he was just the same old John they use to know.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 13, 2014 0:25:10 GMT
Spot on Rocky. They were different to all the others. They had unique personalities too with no one person really put forward as the leader. Their music had so much depth unlike any of the other Mersey Beat bands who where pretty one dimensional. A number of the bands did get the opportunity to make it big. By 1966/67 it was all over and it's easy to see why. The other bands couldn't change with the times or create something new. There was no way Gerry was going to go psychedelic!
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 13, 2014 1:34:00 GMT
lol. And it was a shame too because you had a lot of great musicians back then. Even the great Shadows fizzled out. Some groups are still going, but it's just not the same.
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henryj
For A Number Of Things
Posts: 792
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Post by henryj on Jan 13, 2014 2:34:18 GMT
Having their own material was EXACTLY what made the Beatles such outliers. That and the fact that the songs they wrote were actually outstanding.
When you listen the pop radio of any given year, how many hit songs are cover versions? Not very many. You go to gigs, probably most bands are cover bands.
Good songwriting trumps good chops.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 13, 2014 9:21:24 GMT
I also think they had two exceptional singers in John and Paul who's vocal ranges where so diverse that the band could tackle anything. Then they had George singing as well. Who else was doing that!! I mean Gerry has a great voice technically but his style was one dimensional. I'm not picking on Gerry Marsden by the way it's just that Gerry and the Pacemakers where perhaps the second most successful band out of Liverpool from that period (along with The Searchers) but even then there was a massive gulf between them and The Beatles.
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Post by pothos on Jan 13, 2014 11:02:42 GMT
I am having to repost a couple of lines as I accidently deleted them when adding these images. I was asking how the Stones who were essentially a covers bands for the first couple or so years of their career broke through when many others got nowhere.
By the way am I the only one intrigued how a psychedelic Gerry Marsden would have sounded. (runs away giggling).
Is that John Paul and Cynthia at the Casbah.
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Post by mrmustard on Jan 13, 2014 12:27:40 GMT
You raise a great point Pothos. I don't claim to be the biggest of Stones fans and I have never understood the self-proclaimed title of 'The Greatest Rock 'n' Roll Band in the world' as they are far from it.
I think it was easier for the London bands to get on in the business than anyone outside of London at that time. Look how hard it was for The Beatles with everything they had going for them and with their popularity in Liverpool and Hamburg. They really where nearly signing to the Woolworths label! A band from anywhere outside of London had to have something a bit special to break through. I am sure there where lots more bands in Newcastle than The Animals for instance. In London there was a vibrant blues/R'n'B scene led by very influential people like Alexis Corner who championed them.
London record companies needed a response to Merseybeat as it was in danger of monopolising the music industry which remained in London. The door of opportunity for Merseybeat bands was only open for a very short time before it was well and truly slammed shut on them. In that brief period they had to prove they could develop to survive in the industry but they weren't capable of this. When London realised they had their own new scene going on, that was it.
What I am not explaining is the fact that Jagger and Richards went on to write some absolutely brilliant songs that justified their status. However there was no way anyone could have envisaged what they where to produce. The same could be said for The Who too and possibly The Kinks and may be all the other London based bands. Was it just a gut feeling that the A+R men at their respective record companies had that turned out to be correct? Was it that for every Rolling Stones another five similar bands had been signed by A+R men and they all went the same way as the rest of the Merseybeat bands?
I'm winging it now..........but living in the right place at the right time (I.e. London) certainly helped.
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Post by ROCKY on Jan 13, 2014 14:40:25 GMT
Exactly mm, I'm not a Stones fan either, but I did like them up until Brian died. I always thought Mick was a little on the girlie side. You are 100% right on about the London scene, where did Chas start Jimi out when America didn't want him? After Monterey it was any band in San Fran.! Then later LA. with those metal bands and then the 90's it was Seattle with the grudge scene. Now it's nowhere, the monster ate itself when they killed the record stores and vinyl. Tell me the Top Ten songs right now and I'll give you a cigar! lol
BTW pothos, yes that is Cyn looking at Paul. Taken at the Casbah in Aug. 1959. Not to hijack the subject, but this is a really great interview with Cyn.
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Post by pothos on Jan 13, 2014 22:55:58 GMT
Quite a moving interview and seeing that old flat sent shivers up my spine. I love the image of John and Cynthia sat on the car in the late 1950's. Sad that all the marriages / relationships ended.
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