alexis
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 447
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Post by alexis on Apr 20, 2008 0:47:47 GMT
isn't on the "1" album? Wasn't it their first #1 hit (GM: "Boys, you've got your first number 1 here ...")? Sorry for what I'm sure is a question that has been answered many times before - thanks
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Post by The End on Apr 20, 2008 0:59:58 GMT
Aha, you've uncovered my pet grievance! In my opinion, The Beatles' "Please Please Me" single SHOULD have been included on "1", however, by omitting this track, EMI/Apple effectively said that it DIDN'T get to number one afterall!
This REALLY bugged the crap outa me as for years they had maintained that it did make the top slot!
For the attention of the Guinness Book of Hit Singles - "Please Please Me" reached number one in the BBC chart, Disc, Melody Maker, New Musical Express (NME) and Record Mirror. However, in just ONE British chart it appeared at number 2: the Record Retailer, which later became Music Week.
Record Retailer, the charts used by Guinness in their "Hit Singles" book, are NOT the charts everyone looked to in 1963 - the "official" chart was the one in the NME.
Throughout the sleeve-notes on the Please Please Me LP it mentions the Beatles chart-topper, and in Anthology The Beatles themselves believe their second single was number one. So why now have EMI/Apple given up the fight? Why has Please Please Me been relegated to number 2?
Here is a summary of all the UK charts in 1963 for Please Please Me
BBC #1 Disc #1 MM #1 NME #1 RM #1 RR #2
Here is an interesting article that backs my argument:
Guinness World Records - British Hit Singles & Albums is generally considered to be the authoritative reference source for both the UK Singles Chart (since its inception in 1952) and UK Albums Chart. It lists all the singles and albums ever to have made the UK Top 75 Charts in alphabetical order by both artist and song title, with date of chart entry, highest position, catalogue number, and number of weeks on the chart. Its sources are the New Musical Express chart from November 1952 to March 1960, and the Record Retailer (later Music Week) chart thereafter. Many observers have argued that this division is misleading, since the Record Retailer chart was little-known until it was adopted by the BBC in 1969, and that by adopting this chart as its standard from the earliest opportunity, the editors were effectively "re-writing" chart history. An example often given is the case of The Beatles' second single "Please Please Me" which was recognised as a number one hit by every other publicly-available chart but not by Record Retailer, and therefore not by British Hit Singles. Other records to which this applies include "19th Nervous Breakdown" by The Rolling Stones, "Stranger On The Shore" by Mister Acker Bilk and the Eurovision Song Contest entry "Are You Sure" by The Allisons. Co-founder Jo Rice has defended the book's choice of source material on the grounds that Record Retailer was the only chart to consistently publish a Top 50 from 1960 onwards (as opposed to other charts which published either a shorter listing, such as the NME, or a listing that shrunk over time, such as Melody Maker).
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Geoff
I'll Be On My Way
Show Me That I'm Everywhere And Get Me Home For Tea
Posts: 135
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Post by Geoff on Apr 20, 2008 3:14:57 GMT
This is an old favorite Beatles ranting topic of mine, too: a collection of hit singles that doesn't include their breakthrough British hit has a huge hole in it, to my mind. It would have been so simple to do this album properly: just collect the 26 UK A sides on one disc and put the international hits and other tracks on a second disc or another release altogether. They might have followed Paul's example on All The Best by releasing a separate album for the US market as well. So easy...!
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Post by Bobber on Apr 20, 2008 11:28:43 GMT
Didn't they take the US charts? Cause Penny Lane is on it and so is The Long And Winding Road if I'm correct.
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
Posts: 606
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Post by BlueMeanie on Apr 20, 2008 12:06:30 GMT
Didn't they take the US charts? Cause Penny Lane is on it and so is The Long And Winding Road if I'm correct. Yes, but PPM didn't make No.1 when it was first issued in the States.
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Post by The End on Apr 20, 2008 13:51:42 GMT
Didn't they take the US charts? Cause Penny Lane is on it and so is The Long And Winding Road if I'm correct. In compiling the album, they used a combination of UK and US charts - hence the inclusion of The Long And Winding Road, as you pointed out, which was not released as a single in the UK.
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Post by Bobber on Apr 20, 2008 18:20:13 GMT
It's a bit random, isn't it?
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
Posts: 606
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Post by BlueMeanie on Apr 20, 2008 18:36:55 GMT
It's a bit random, isn't it? Wasn't it Capitol's idea in the first place, and Apple just ran with it? Hence the inclusion of American hits. Don't agree with Al re: Record Retailer/NME. RR was considered the official chart at the time, and as far as I know they were the only one's operating the 'returns' system. Even if NME was more widely read. I still think PPM should have gone on the album though, as it was thought of as a No.1 for so many years.
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zipp
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 97
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Post by zipp on Apr 20, 2008 22:21:34 GMT
Read this first BM then eat your heart out. Record Retailer Guinness` chart expert, Dave McAleer, believed that the RR chart was compiled from hundreds of record shop returns, thereby providing the best guide to actual sales from 1960 onwards. But Paul Clifford, the manager of the Chart Information Network, has uncovered documentary evidence that the first RR chart of March 1960 was compiled by telephoning just 30 record stores, a figure which has been corroborated by Stephen Old of the Media Entertainment Research organisation. The RR`s sample grew by March 1962 to 40 stores, 60 a year later, and 80 by 1969. As will be seen, this figure falls far short of its main competitors, Melody Makerand NME, and even Discsampled 70-100 retailers between 1963 and August 1967, and 200 by 1969. Indeed, the BBC`s 25 Years Of Top Of The Popsbook notes that only one member of the RR`s staff called up retailers, a broader sampling process being beyond the limited means of a trade paper such as the Record Retailer. Further undermining its credibility, RR`s chart was compiled Monday-to-Monday rather than on Fridays like its competitors, resulting in some wild swings, notably in May 1960, July 1967 and August 1968, with three joint chart toppers, while the No. 1 at the turn of 1968/69 alternated back and forth between the Scaffold`s "Lily The Pink" and Marmalade`s "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" – both Beatles-related novelties. The RR chart was also the only one neverto list any Beatles single going straight in at No. 1, nor to place either their "Please Please Me" or the Rolling Stones` "19th Nervous Breakdown" at the top spot. Finally, the RR`s points system for allocating chart positions was based on the placings that singles achieved in RR`s designation shops, rather than the actual total sales figures, and this resulted in tied singles and even some joint No. 1s. Guinness` Dave McAleer points out that the only continuing Top 50 of the 1960s was the one in the Retailer.But this does little to further the argument that it was the most authoritative. Indeed, competing Top 50 listings in Disc(which ran from April 1966 to April 1967) and Melody Maker(September 1962 to April 1967) were reduced to Top 30s because "have-a-go" band managers tried to influence the lower ends of the charts by hyping their acts. This fact was highlighted by the editor of the Melody Maker,Jack Hutton, in April 1967, and confirmed by Michael Cables` subsequent investigation in The Pop Industry Inside Out.This was not a recent phenomenon - from Radio Luxemburg in the 1950s to the birth of pirate radio in 1964, unscrupulous programme planners were not averse to helping a platter`s progress, provided a small expenditure or favour had been exchanged. Also undermining the Record Retailer`scredentials as thechart of the times is the fact that the magazine couldn`t be bought over the counter and had to be pre-ordered. Its chart was regarded by the BBC as so peripheral that it wasn`t even included in calculations of the Top Of The PopsTV chart until 1966. Only record companies and larger record chains had ready access to it, and labels like EMI only began to utilise its figures in 1962 after the Record Mirroradopted them. Even then, Record Mirrorwas one of the lower-selling music papers, being on par with Disc,below Melody Maker,and a country mile behind the 250,000-plus-circulation of NME. for full text see The End's post here : dmbeatles.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-songs/m-1144845314/
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Post by The End on Apr 20, 2008 22:55:24 GMT
Don't agree with Al re: Record Retailer/NME. RR was considered the official chart at the time, and as far as I know they were the only one's operating the 'returns' system. Even if NME was more widely read. I wasn't around in 1963 so I am formulating that opinion based on what I have been told by people that were of a record-buying age and from what I have read (including both articles posted in this thread). The fact is if RR was the regarded chart in 1963 that some believe it was, why does it state on the back of The Beatles' first album that Please Please Me went to number one? From Tony Barrow's sleeve notes for the Please Please Me LP:
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
Posts: 606
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Post by BlueMeanie on Apr 21, 2008 8:58:53 GMT
Don't agree with Al re: Record Retailer/NME. RR was considered the official chart at the time, and as far as I know they were the only one's operating the 'returns' system. Even if NME was more widely read. I wasn't around in 1963 so I am formulating that opinion based on what I have been told by people that were of a record-buying age and from what I have read (including both articles posted in this thread). The fact is if RR was the regarded chart in 1963 that some believe it was, why does it state on the back of The Beatles' first album that Please Please Me went to number one? From Tony Barrow's sleeve notes for the Please Please Me LP: Because it's marketing. If only one of those publications you mentioned had it at No.1, they'd still say it. All I'm saying is that RR was the recognised industry standard in those days. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, better or worse.
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zipp
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 97
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Post by zipp on Apr 21, 2008 9:13:28 GMT
And don't forget John lennon on the first Xmas disc thanks the fans for sending PPM to number one!
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Post by The End on Apr 21, 2008 12:09:44 GMT
There wasn't an official chart back then like there is now but the majority turned to the New Musical Express, which was by far the biggest selling music publication of the day. RR was a trade paper that also ran it's own chart - I'm not sure it was adopted by the record industry as THE chart though; I haven't seen any evidence of it.
The fact remains that up until the Guinness book of hit singles came out, everyone believed Please Please Me hit number one.
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Post by the carnabys on Apr 21, 2008 12:20:14 GMT
As far as I am concerned PPM was number one. End of :-D
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woodbine
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 27
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Post by woodbine on May 5, 2008 12:15:18 GMT
Yep, not including PPM is a major peeve of mine, matched only by the exclusion of "Strawberry Fields Forever". I mean, Penny Lane/SFF was a double-A sided single, right? If PL was included due to its "number 1" status then the flip should have been included also.
And PPM would have made a much better opening track than LMD anyway.
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cattycatfish
What Goes On In Your Heart
The Beatelles
Posts: 36
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Post by cattycatfish on May 19, 2008 0:31:54 GMT
'ive got a feeling' they overlooked PPM IMO.
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