rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Jan 16, 2013 0:22:25 GMT
I'm so glad the Zappa Family Trust has finally made a deal with Universal Music to re-issue Frank Zappa's huge catalog. For the longest time Zappa CDs were becoming harder to find, and when you did find them they were rediculously expensive.
Do you have any Zappa? If so, what have you got? And what are your favorites?
I like just about anything Frank has released, some albums more than others. I have a special fondness for Frank's '70's albums...Starting with "The Grand Wazoo", "Waka/Jawaka", "Over-nite Sensation", "Apostrophe(')", "Roxy & Elsewhere", "One Size Fits All", "Bongo Fury", "Zoot Allures", "Zappa In New York" and "Joe's Garage Acts I,II & III". For myself, these are the most essential of his albums.
Of course, there are a number of great Frank Zappa albums before and after the 1970's, but in my mind, the '70's were his best years.
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Post by Amadeus on Jan 16, 2013 22:04:49 GMT
Well, a man after my own heartburn. I love Zappa's stuff. BUT, call me a prude, I don't enjoy dirty jokes so by and large, the Flo & Eddie period is a bit tedious. But the musical score for 200 Motels is brilliant. And Billy The Mountain is great. A similar problem with Joe's Garage. It starts off as a nice story about a dictatorial society where musicians get put in jail and ends up about getting your jollies by mechanical means. And where do I start with THING FISH? ALTHOUGH.....I like the music. I don't understand why it's the most reviled album of his by his fans even. But at least it was all done with great imagination.
NOW,,,,I love the 60's MOTHERS. It, of course, was the first stuff I heard. And I love the two 'Big Band' albums that never sold all that much. He said that they did well in Scandinavia. And the rock/fusion albums of the 70's.
The 80's are patchy but I love the 3 albums from the '88 tour. And the entire concept of the YCDTOSAM series was great.
I have some vinyl but most of my Zappa stuff is from the second RYKO run in the mid nineties.
My favorites: Lather (which includes most of four other albums), Waka/Jawaka, Roxy and Elsewhere, We're Only In It For The Money (including the '84 re-record/re-mix), Make a Jazz Noise Here, The Mothers Ahead Of Their Time, One Size Fits All, and possibly; You Are What You Is.
I've read The Real Frank Zappa book dozens of times and The Dangerous Kitchen almost as many times.
That's it for now. Lots to talk about.
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Jan 17, 2013 2:02:11 GMT
"The Real Frank Zappa Book" is entertaining. I read it every so often.
The first Zappa I ever heard was on John & Yoko's "Live Jam" from "Some Time In New York City". It didn't impress me that much...Then I heard "Over-nite Sensation" at a party. I was only 12, so Frank's smutty side spoke to me, but at the same time I realised that this was more than smutty lyrics; there were actually complex notes and time signature changes involved. And that electric violin solo by Jean-Luc Ponty on "Fifty-Fifty" sends goose bumps down my spine. "Over-nite Sensation" was my first real FZ purchase...The rest of the catalog followed gradually...
I pretty much agree about "Thing-Fish" and "Joe's Garage". "Thing-Fish" is a strange album that sometimes goes overboard with the obscenities. A little too much recycled material, also. It's hard to follow until you read the libretto. "Joe's Garage" starts off as an interesting story, but as soon as Act 2 begins FZ loses focus and it becomes rediculous. But the redeeming factors of Acts 2 & 3 are the guitar solo sections of "Outside Now" and "He Used To Cut The Grass", not to mention on of FZ's better guitar solo songs, "Watermelon In Easter Hay". The "Thing-Fish" album is almost completely without lead guitar. At least "Joe's Garage" has quite a bit of that.
Anyway, here's what I've picked up along the way. I used to have a lot of these on vinyl, so I was already familliar with the music when I finally acquired the CDs. All are the most recent editions, except as noted...
Freak Out Absolutely Free Lumpy Gravy We're Only In It For The Money We're Only In It For The Money / Lumpy Gravy (1st run Ryko, WOIIFTM with '84 overdubs) Greasey Love Songs (mail order only from Barfko-Swill, includes original stereo mix of "Cruising With Ruben & The Jets" + bonus tracks.) Uncle Meat Hot Rats Weasels Ripped My Flesh Burnt Weeny Sandwich Chunga's Revenge 200 Motels (MGM ) Fillmore East-June 1971 Just Another Band From LA Waka Jawaka The Grand Wazoo Over-nite Sensation Apostrophe(') Roxy & Elsewhere One Size Fits All Bongo Fury (Ryko, 1993 remaster) Zoot Allures (Ryko, 1993 remaster) Zappa In New York (Ryko, 1993 remaster) Studio Tan Sleep Dirt Sheik Yerbouti Orchestral Favorites Joe's Garage Acts I, II & III Tinseltown Rebellion Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar You Are What You Is Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch Thing-Fish FZ Meets The Mothers Of Prevention Does Humor Belong In Music? Jazz From Hell Guitar Broadway The Hard Way The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life Make A Jazz Noise Here You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore -Volume 1 You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore -Volume 2 (The Helsinki Concert) Lather Lather (1996 Ryko with bonus tracks) Wazoo (mail order from Barfko Swill) Imaginary Diseases Joe's Domage (mail order from Barfko Swill) One Shot Deal (mail order from Barfko Swill) Trance-Fusion
Can't believe how many recordings Zappa put out!
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Post by Amadeus on Jan 17, 2013 2:53:39 GMT
I must say that I absolutely adore the 'Broadway The hardway' version of Outside Now. Yes there's some sublime playing on Joe's Garage.
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Jan 17, 2013 11:54:11 GMT
I love Zappa's lead guitar work. His guitar playing had "attitude". Among his best songs with terrific lead guitar solos are:
Inca Roads Andy On The Bus (a/k/a Toad-O-Line) Keep It Greasey Packard Goose (love FZ's Al DiMeola riffs on this) Zomby Woof Holiday In Berlin - Full Blown Little House I Used To Live In Willie The Pimp (studio version, and also the version on the "Fillmore" album that's split into parts 1 & 2. Particularly love FZ's 1971 solos...) Zoot Allures Black Napkins Eat That Question Yo' Mama City Of Tiny Lites
And also, if you can locate FZ's "One Shot Deal" CD, which is mail order only, you may want to check out the track "Occam's Razor". It's actually an "Inca Roads" guitar solo, but Joe's Garage fans will notice that this is the guitar solo FZ used for the track "On The Bus".
Another great FZ guitar solo can be heard on Grand Funk Railroad's album "Good Singin' Good Playin", which Zappa produced. The song "Out To Get You" has quite the FZ guitar solo.
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Post by Amadeus on Jan 18, 2013 18:37:27 GMT
My first favorite solo was Inca Roads.
I have everything on your list except for:
Greasy Love Songs 200 Motels Fillmore East Zappa In New York Joe's Garage Thing Fish Does Humour Belong In Music Shut Up And Play Your Guitar Joe's Domage One Shot Deal Trance-Fusion
Here are the ones I have that aren't on your list:
Reuben and The Jets (vinyl and CD) Man From Utopia The LSO Boulez Conducts Zappa Francesco Zappa All of the YCDTOSAM Yellow Shark Civilization Phaze III Philly '76 Joe's Corsage Joe's Xmessage Lost Episodes
There are some very cool items on Lost Episodes. Some of the PAL studio stuff and Studio Z stuff and a ripping version of Wino Man sung by Ricky Lancelotti. A few field recordings and spoken word stuff that never gets old. Check It Out.
My DVDs are:
Does Humour Belong In music The Dub Room Special
I'm not sure that I really like his films. They aren't near as good as the music. 200 Motels being filmed on Video tape made it rather tedious to watch for me. There are some moments on Dub Room Special that are good and some good bits on Uncle Meat (The Albert hall stuff).
I really think that Dweezil should really spend some time to put together the Roxy And Elsewhere film. And take all the best bits from the existing movies and a bunch of the historical stuff floating around on the Internet and assemble a ''The Kids Are Alright'' type of film.
Comments?
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Jan 18, 2013 20:33:19 GMT
The "Roxy" DVD has been in the works for quite a while now. FZ's widow Gail has been promising this for years. There was even a trailer on the Zappa web site years ago. Now there's some crap on the site that gives everyone a chance to finance & distribute the dvd. You have to pay a thousand dollars...I didn't read it very carefully, so I really don't quite get it.
I do like the idea of a "Kids Are Alright" style film of Zappa. There are a number of filmed performances that could be used from many different eras. I'd like to see them use some of the Saturday Night Live appearances...and I know I've seen YouTube videos of the old Mothers playing "King Kong" (I think?). Also, they could use Frank's appearance on "The Mike Douglas Show" which included him playing "Black Napkins" with Mike's TV orchestra. And of course there's the Steve Allen Show, which featured a clean shaven, short haired FZ performing music on a bicycle.
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Apr 5, 2013 19:27:52 GMT
The eons are closing...I only need a small handful of FZ albums to be complete, but already several mail order only CDs are out of print. I've added the following to my collection:
Playground Psychotics (2012) Mystery Disc (2012) The Lost Episodes (2012) Ahead Of Their Time (2013)
I also ditched my old '93 Ryko "Zoot Allures" for a 2012 Zappa Records CD. Previous to the 2012 CD, all other CDs are missing the "drum machine" intro to "Disco Boy". On the 2012 version the missing intro is restored, and the overall sound is improved.
I am waiting for "The Lumpy/Money Project" to arrive in the mail. It has a mono mix of the original version of "Lumpy Gravy" as released and quickly withdrawn by Capitol Records. It also has a mono mix of "We're Only In It For The Money" which is supposedly quite different than the stereo mix...Can't wait for this thing to get here.
I haven't bothered yet to get a CD of "Cruising With Ruben & The Jets", since all the CDs of this album have the 1984 drum & bass overdubs. These overdubs sound completely stupid when they occour on a 1968 album intended as a parody of 1950's doo-wop music. By having the "Greasey Love Songs" CD, I already have the original stereo mix of "Ruben".
I also recently added a bootleg DVD to my collection, called ZAPPA LIVE IN BARCELONA. It contains Frank's concert from Spain in 1988, which was broadcast on TV somewhere in the world. There are a few drop outs in sound, but overall it's not bad. At least it's a chance to see FZ and his '88 band professionally filmed performing live.
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 5, 2013 21:15:36 GMT
Don`t have as much as I like . were only in it for the money Joe`s Garage , all of them Live at Roxy Did have Hot Rats at one time
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 6, 2013 7:27:26 GMT
WARNING: THIS'LL CHEER MR. KITE UP!!!!!
I'm currently in the process of clearing the back room and so (ironically!) I finally got rid of my last Zappa CD yesterday to Oxfam - the dire (and I think I can say this as a Doo Wop/Rock 'n' Roll fan) 'Ruben & The Jets'.
Now I can 'do' difficult......Pre-war blues, AMM, The Fugs, early Captain Beefheart.....but I never 'got' Zappa, not even the Golden Age (i.e. 60s) stuff.
A few things:
1. All the rank 1970s stuff like 'Titties and Beer' is incredibly tacky and bleak even if it is 'ironic'.
2. A boring guitar solo is a boring guitar solo even if it is ironic.
3. It's all very well parodying and poking fun at various styles of music but helps if you've actually, say, written a successful pop song!
4. One song on an album (maybe) might benefit from the use of a bit of clavinet, cloak you're whole back catalogue in it and it will sound sh**e!
5. If you remaster your back catalogue, it's better to use the technology of the time (i.e. 60s) rather than drench the whole thing in 1980s (urgh!!!!) production.
Perhaps it's the sound of the various CDs (I had about 10) of Zappa's that were the problem; records from 1966 sounded like they were from 1987, and that can NEVER be a good thing.
If they were done properly (by Ace maybe) I would get the first one, but I'd tread very, very carefully, and I'd be in no danger of getting the.....erm.....'funny' stuff from the dull 1970s.
Over to you Mr. K.......................
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 6, 2013 15:52:07 GMT
Thank You . Ranger . So you must have liked Frank Zappa then ! Not really your taste and never sang Heatwave what possessed you to buy his albums ? Oxfam ! I would have paid the post ! I love Titties And Beer ! (John Smiths ) Over to you Amadeus .
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Post by Amadeus on Apr 6, 2013 17:04:38 GMT
Thank You Kite (Mr.)
Irony. Something you need to have in your diet to keep big and strong. OK, So Zappa's solos and satire won't keep you big and strong but neither will a good pop song (say, like, The Beatles). It's just entertainment. Designed to be consumed as entertainment. To take it as anything beyond that is just inviting disappointment.
There's lots of people who dislike a lot of ''pop'' culture and Zappa's music appeals to some of those weirdos (like me). Also, the parody,,, Zappa actually had a love for some of the stuff that got parodied, like doo-wop, and keep in mind that he didn't set out to make a legitimate replica of doo-wop music, but his own strange view of it.
The purpose of Rueben And The Jets is explained clearly in the liner notes of Uncle Meat as part of the method Mr. Meat uses to conquer the world with love songs and 'cretin simplicity'.
If nothing else, it's entertaining.
To me, a Grateful Dead solo is boring but lot's of strange (and not strange) people seem to like it. I don't know, I didn't drink the cool aid. But I love listening to Zappa's solos. I love listening to Steve Howe's solos and I love Hendrix's solos.
Zappa is also NOT a competitor in pop or rock music. He's a composer who happens to play electric guitar and use some pop/rock music in his (pretentious word alert) vision.
As I said above, I'm not a fan of tacky dirty jokes either. But even without the ever popular 200 Motels and Filmore East there is so much more there than that.
And a good pop song is not an indicator of how much quality a musician has. It's just a different sort of direction.
Some people like cows but others like sheep. I happen to like long walks in the romantic sunset. (and Guinness). Just different strokes for different folks.
But to quote J. W. Lennon (another great iron): But still, it's Betty than Grable (and Lombard).
Just because he never put out a song like ''Hit Me Baby One More Time'' (which, admittedly, humans will be singing when apes take over the planet because ''Titties and Beer'' is too complicated to recite under duress) doesn't make it any less legitimate.
What was my point again?/??/?//
Oh yeah, you need iron in your diet.
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 6, 2013 19:03:17 GMT
I didn't get most of that.
I'm rather pleased I didn't get most of that, because it proves I'm doing something right.
Why do I need iron in my diet exactly? Or did you mean irony?
Are you clever or really (and I'm inclined to say 'rather like Zappa') are you just pretending to be clever.....I reckon it's the latter. Indeed, if 'clever' is clarity, and I believe it is, then it's definitely the latter.
On a more positive note, if these albums are reissued can I be sure that Absolutely Free and Freak Out won't sound like they were recorded in 1987?
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Post by Amadeus on Apr 6, 2013 20:49:20 GMT
Oooooo!!! You showed me! Listen, N. Korea is about to blow up the world. Cut the retards some slack, huh?
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 6, 2013 21:09:07 GMT
I Love this Forum ! I hope they don`t bomb South Korea I love their films .
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Apr 6, 2013 23:19:52 GMT
I don't think Frank Zappa was really trying to have hit singles. But "Dancin' Fool" and "Valley Girl" did get a lot of airplay.
It's not easy to justify liking any type of music to anyone. It's all a matter of opinion. I like most of what Zappa released. My choice. And it's anyone's choice to not like Zappa's music. For myself, there's a lot to digest in the FZ catalog, and I think a majority of it tastes good.
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ranger
I'll Be On My Way
Posts: 153
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Post by ranger on Apr 7, 2013 7:39:16 GMT
The only thing I know about North Korea is what they did to Italy in the '66 World Cup. So, another comment by Amadeus that (mercifully) goes right over my head.
Perhaps it's all that spandex she wears wot makes her so clever. Oh, that I might one day be qualified enough to be able to read 'Classic Rawwwwkkkkkk' cover to cover.
Now stick to the remit, darling, can I expect the first two Mothers' LPs to be accurately reissued on CD in this spate of releases, or are they still going to sound like 1987?
(Keep off the Guinness, you know that half a glass gets you tiddly.)
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rdnzl
I'll Be On My Way
Pastor Of Muppets
Posts: 251
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Post by rdnzl on Apr 7, 2013 9:07:43 GMT
Both "Freak Out!" and "Absolutely Free" are sourced from the original analog masters on the 2012 CDs.
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Post by mrmustard on Apr 7, 2013 9:39:39 GMT
Oh, that I might one day be qualified enough to be able to read 'Classic Rawwwwkkkkkk' cover to cover. Well based on your postings thus far you are not qualified in much really, let alone Classic Rock.
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Post by Mr Kite on Apr 7, 2013 11:24:33 GMT
I would`nt struggle with a Classic Mod Mag as they do not exist .
I still want to know how you ( Ranger ) ended up with Frank Zappa albums .
I wait with bated breath .
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