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Post by kaleidoscope_tree on Sept 24, 2007 9:24:48 GMT
I had this sudden realization. If you generalize the song lyrics of the Fab four at their solo years, Ringo writes about happy-life songs, Paul- whatever the public wants, John wrote about Peace and Love and George wrote about Spiritualism and all that.
Will the reason why each wrote in these styles could be because: Ringo- had a reasonably happy childhood, didnt see too many deaths, had a reasonably good marriage and he never was much of a deep person to write serious stuff. Besides he is a "family man" as he says so I would imagine he would want to give his children the message of "enjoy life coz its gorgeous and its great". Or maybe the reason why he dont write a lot of love songs is becasue he feels guilty about Maureen?
Paul- alwasy was and alwasy will be a PR person
John- loveless childhood, not the best love life, feeling isolated... so he felt now that he is "free" from the Beatles he can write all that he missed then? Thats why he is so into the whole Love stuff.
George- happy childhood, good marriage (in both cases), was lucky in terms of getting into the Beatles so young and going with them to places. So he would write less about all that but instead he writes about what he experienced less and what he wanted to experience more: Spiritualism. I never did find his love songs very... good...
Thoughts?
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Post by The End on Sept 24, 2007 12:22:49 GMT
John's songs don't really need much interpretation because he wrote about himself (and Yoko) a lot of the time. But you have made a very good point there!
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Post by harihead on Sept 24, 2007 13:14:49 GMT
Hi, Kaleidoscope_tree! I agree with your basic premise-- people write about what's important to them, or what they're trying to work out. I think when artists write "to the market" the product lacks soul and doesn't resonate. People may not know why, but they just won't be as interested as when something comes "from the heart" (my personal theory).
That said, I think your summary is a little simplistic. All these men wrote about many things, and all of them experienced their fair share of anguish and setbacks. For example, to suggest that Ringo "never was much of a deep person" seems to me to be selling him short. He's got the same emotional range as anybody. "Octopus' Garden" can be read as a wish for escape (his difficult situation with the Beatles; he wrote it after he'd temporarily quit during the White album). His marriage with Barbara was plagued with alcoholism and some violence which led him to take the brave stand of going into rehab-- which was not commonly done then (or acknowledged) and earned him a lot of flak at the time. I really admire him for this and I think he helped a lot of people through his example.
Anyway, that's just an example. I think you can certainly find trends and themes that are important to each person, but it's not quite as one-dimensional as your initial post suggests. Not sure what you're looking for in responses. Did you want to explore each person's work more deeply?
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kevin
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 40
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Post by kevin on Sept 24, 2007 13:21:50 GMT
, Paul- whatever the public wants, Paul- alwasy was and alwasy will be a PR person Oooh - I find that a bit harsh. Paul was a consumate songwriter, who able to write in any genre. I think this love of songwriting, rather than some notion of playing to his public, is what inspired Paul.
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kevin
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 40
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Post by kevin on Sept 24, 2007 14:02:05 GMT
Maybe Ringo wrote "happy-life songs" because he didn't have the skill to write about anything else?
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indica
And That's A Start
"Have you heard the word is love?"
Posts: 5
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Post by indica on Sept 25, 2007 10:33:24 GMT
...a tear slides from beneath a purple stained spectacle... Hope Ringo isn't a new member!
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Post by kaleidoscope_tree on Sept 25, 2007 23:00:16 GMT
Anyway, that's just an example. I think you can certainly find trends and themes that are important to each person, but it's not quite as one-dimensional as your initial post suggests. Not sure what you're looking for in responses. Did you want to explore each person's work more deeply? well I was generalizing. We could explore each person's work more deeply - it bounds to be fun. And interesting. Shall we start was Paul? Oooh - I find that a bit harsh. Paul was a consumate songwriter, who able to write in any genre. I think this love of songwriting, rather than some notion of playing to his public, is what inspired Paul. Yes, maybe it was too harsh from me... but he does tend to write a lot of love songs which is usually what the fans want from a good looking singer. I was just thinking now, songs like "See Your Sunshine" and "Nod Your Head" isnt he a bit too old singing those? I mean, I admire his vocal capacity but when he sings "ooh look what you do to me baby you making me feel so fine" I think "you're too old, Paulie". But then he starts to write those "story" songs, as I call them, like Mr Bellamy and Only Mama Knows and House of Wax (perhaps), which I like, but dont know if they gain much support. Oh dear... and I call myself a Paul fan.
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Post by kaleidoscope_tree on Sept 27, 2007 0:11:46 GMT
Maybe Ringo wrote "happy-life songs" because he didn't have the skill to write about anything else? wherever all the Ringo fans gone to?
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Octie
What Goes On In Your Heart
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Post by Octie on Sept 27, 2007 13:35:55 GMT
Maybe Ringo wrote "happy-life songs" because he didn't have the skill to write about anything else? wherever all the Ringo fans gone to? *attempt 1*... they're in the Octopus's Garden? (feel free to go like this: everyone! ) No, but to be honest, I think being able to make people happy is a skill too... Ringo-songs always manage to make me smile/reassure when I'm worried, and they set me up for the day with a good mood So in my opinion, a skill like that has value too... But then he starts to write those "story" songs, as I call them, like Mr Bellamy and Only Mama Knows and House of Wax (perhaps), which I like, but dont know if they gain much support. I really like Paul's story-songs (or "whimsical", as DaveRam said on DM) I think that's another one of those differences between Paul and John, what with John writing mainly about himself and all... did John ever do this kind of story-type song, by the way? *thinks*
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kevin
What Goes On In Your Heart
Posts: 40
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Post by kevin on Sept 27, 2007 13:56:05 GMT
... did John ever do this kind of story-type song, by the way? *thinks* I think he kinda tried on Good Morning Good Morning - complete with McCartneyish instrumentation - but not his thing and failed miserably.
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Octie
What Goes On In Your Heart
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Post by Octie on Sept 27, 2007 14:15:05 GMT
^ Oh, I see-I see. Thanks Kevin Yeh, I suppose Paul's better at those... and I can't think off the top of my head about a song that John wrote about someone else (ie imaginary character like Mr Bellamy/Eleanor Rigby)... hmm... Oh yeah, one thing I find about John-songs is that they are very... honest. Sometimes even painfully so... (not meaning that in a bad way of course) And I find that quite a few George-songs "get me thinking" as the saying goes... like Art of Dying, See Yourself...
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Post by kaleidoscope_tree on Sept 28, 2007 2:20:38 GMT
Oh yeah, one thing I find about John-songs is that they are very... honest. Sometimes even painfully so... (not meaning that in a bad way of course) Yea, thats what I like about John. I admire his honesty. "I didnt want to hurt you I didnt mean to make you cry, I'm just a jealous guy"And I find that quite a few George-songs "get me thinking" as the saying goes... like Art of Dying, See Yourself... Yes. And as Creamie said in another forum thats why people like him less than the other 3. Which of course is highly subjective. did John ever do this kind of story-type song, by the way? *thinks* What about Being For the Benefit of Mr Kite?
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Post by The End on Sept 28, 2007 11:13:36 GMT
can't think off the top of my head about a song that John wrote about someone else (ie imaginary character like Mr Bellamy/Eleanor Rigby)... hmm... There were two tracks on Abbey Road - Polythene Pam and Mean Mr Mustard.
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Octie
What Goes On In Your Heart
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Post by Octie on Sept 29, 2007 23:25:22 GMT
can't think off the top of my head about a song that John wrote about someone else (ie imaginary character like Mr Bellamy/Eleanor Rigby)... hmm... There were two tracks on Abbey Road - Polythene Pam and Mean Mr Mustard. Oh whoops, sure, and Mr Kite too, as K_T said... haha, apparently the top of my head wasn't functioning very well that night!
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alexis
I'll Be On My Way
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Post by alexis on Oct 28, 2007 13:42:04 GMT
There were two tracks on Abbey Road - Polythene Pam and Mean Mr Mustard. Oh whoops, sure, and Mr Kite too, as K_T said... haha, apparently the top of my head wasn't functioning very well that night! I'm not sure Mr. Kite counts as one that John wrote about someone else, because I think he just copied the words of a festival poster from the 1800s or early 1900s. But for another one he didn't write about himself/story-type songs how about Lucy in the Sky, or Dr. Robert?
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Post by harihead on Nov 2, 2007 22:30:09 GMT
And I find that quite a few George-songs "get me thinking" as the saying goes... like Art of Dying, See Yourself... And as Creamie said in another forum thats why people like him less than the other 3. Which of course is highly subjective. This is certainly a highly subjective viewpoint. Of course, Creamie may be right that the majority of Beatles fans prefer not to think. But I've seen some thoughtful people on these forums, so I would wonder about that. I like George the best simply because his music is more interesting to me and he often writes playful, humorous songs. If you like story songs, you might enjoy "Faster" or the funky "Soft-Hearted Hana" which is one of my favorites, both from George Harrison. In fact, I think there's generally some kind of story song on every album. But I like George because he writes about real themes that are important to a grown-up person. Not only love, which tops a lot of lists, but jealousy, greed, self-realization, resolution, vacations, nature, friendship, fantasy, bad PR, hero worship, fame, and just plain love of music. There is certainly nothing cerebral about "It's Johnny's Birthday", just a lot of silliness and happy feelings. I think which artist you prefer is simply a matter of taste. I don't like artists who tend to be too angsty, too fluffy, or too trivial. I do enjoy intelligent lyrics and playfulness along with a nice, bouncy beat. But I think the whole trick in life is to enjoy more, and not less. So I like to try new things and see if I can expand my taste. But my basic preferences are easy to spot; I respond by saying to myself, "Hey, I like that!" Which is all any artist is really after, I suppose.
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BlueMeanie
For A Number Of Things
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
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Post by BlueMeanie on Nov 5, 2007 12:24:41 GMT
And as Creamie said in another forum thats why people like him less than the other 3. Which of course is highly subjective. This is certainly a highly subjective viewpoint. Of course, Creamie may be right that the majority of Beatles fans prefer not to think. But I've seen some thoughtful people on these forums, so I would wonder about that. I think that most people don't think about the music they're listening to. People on forums are probably just the kind of people that do. I'll bet that the majority of folks just want something easy on the ears, for the car, or the dinner party, and never really listen to their CD's. It's just a pleasant sound to them. And they couldn't sing along no matter how simple the lyrics were. Not that I want to belittle simple lyrics. Pop songs are sometimes more about the sound that the words make when sung, rather than what they say.
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Post by macsgirl on Mar 6, 2008 16:09:10 GMT
I had this sudden realization. If you generalize the song lyrics of the Fab four at their solo years, Ringo writes about happy-life songs, Paul- whatever the public wants, John wrote about Peace and Love and George wrote about Spiritualism and all that. Will the reason why each wrote in these styles could be because: Ringo- had a reasonably happy childhood, didnt see too many deaths, had a reasonably good marriage and he never was much of a deep person to write serious stuff. Besides he is a "family man" as he says so I would imagine he would want to give his children the message of "enjoy life coz its gorgeous and its great". Or maybe the reason why he dont write a lot of love songs is becasue he feels guilty about Maureen? Paul- alwasy was and alwasy will be a PR person John- loveless childhood, not the best love life, feeling isolated... so he felt now that he is "free" from the Beatles he can write all that he missed then? Thats why he is so into the whole Love stuff. George- happy childhood, good marriage (in both cases), was lucky in terms of getting into the Beatles so young and going with them to places. So he would write less about all that but instead he writes about what he experienced less and what he wanted to experience more: Spiritualism. I never did find his love songs very... good... Thoughts? I think you have hit the nail on the head there, your observations of the guys may well be why they wrote the type of songs that they did, songwriters often write about what has gone on in their life, or is going on in their life.
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Post by the carnabys on Mar 27, 2008 13:39:31 GMT
Quite simply, you had Paul writing optimistic pop songs and John writing self-analytical stuff. Obviously there are exceptions but I think on the whole, this can sum them up.
For me, the best Lennon / McCartney song writing style is is 'Getting Better'. Its perfect! Pauls "I've got to admit its getting better, it's getting better all the time" And Lennon's negative response "it couldn't get much worse"
Just them two lines shows the optimist and pesimist working in tandom. Awesome. perfect complementation.
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alaskan
What Goes On In Your Heart
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Post by alaskan on Mar 31, 2008 5:26:11 GMT
Picking up on what the carnabys wrote, another example of whimsical vs somber, or optimist vs pessimist is "We Can Work It Out", the verses basically another gem pop radio love song, with a brirdge that starts out "life is very short". i don't think another popular songwriting tandem - rock music or any other genre - could have gotten away with such a dichotomy within a short song. but it shows just how different they were as songwriters.
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