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Post by mrmustard on Oct 11, 2014 23:23:37 GMT
Has there ever been statement off Ringo about a call off John on the 14th? I'm confused about the 29th July visit as Tom Egbers book states they turned up on the 15th. None of this adds up at all.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 0:36:49 GMT
I think I'm getting a headache like pothos mrm. lol
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 10:20:48 GMT
More confusion or the truth?? Three separate interviews with Ringo at different times in his life. He's pretty darn consistent in his recollections. In the third one (the Anthology clip), he again repeats the same story (at 1:38) also stating he doesn't remember John calling, which someone had put in a book. The way he talks implies the call off Epstein on the Wednesday is the first time he has been offered the job. The Truth is out there - somewhere!!! www.moderndrummer.com/site/2014/02/ringo-starr-meets-beatles-ringo-modern-drummer-interview/#.VDpUdWK9KSM
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Post by brewmaster on Oct 12, 2014 11:42:57 GMT
Great posts guys. Very difficult to pin down the precise details of this sequence of events. A couple of points which may help. In "Drummed Out" Spencer Leigh discusses the three versions: A] John phoning on Tuesday B] Brian phoning on the Wednesday [Ringo's version] C] John & Paul turning up in person [Johnny Guitar's version] The problem with versions A/B is that contacting someone at Butlins by phone was very difficult. There were no phones in the chalets, and anyway Ringo was living offsite in a caravan [with JG] To me Johnny Guitar's version seems most credible, with John & Paul most likely rurning up on the Tuesday, which slots into their schedule neatly. He remembers being surprised to see them because John hated Butlins.....he called it Belsen" When interviewed about his version; Johnny was asked if he was certain that John & Paul visited Butlins in person' he said "Yes. Rory got a big shock when Ringo said he was going to leave, and so did I.It is possible that Ringo was tipped the wink on his last visit to Liverpool, but we had no inkling of what was going on." Hope this helps.
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Post by pothos on Oct 12, 2014 12:00:23 GMT
Ok after a nights sleep here are some thoughts.
Wasn't there a major court case in the late 1960's regarding Pete Best and The Beatles. What are the odds that somewhere in the vaults a definitive or at least legally agreed timeline of events might have been agreed. If my memory is wrong on that then the previous sentence is nul and void.
However if dates cannot be agreed upon can events be at least put into order.
Ringo has in early 62 played in Hamburg with Tony Sherridan. Left early and is back with RSATH. RSATH get the Skegness gig. At some point during 62 the rest of The Beatles have made a decision to replace Pete Best (I there a rough date for that?) At some point over that summer Epstein has chatted to Ringo and others possibly on more than one occasion about the "possibility" of joining The Beatles (tonal nature and date is open to debate) Question 1 did Ringo mention this to the rest of RSATH. I think yes and as RSATH were having a miserable time at this point always surprised that RSATH did not fall apart completely at this point. This would explain how Johnny G knew about the Epstein call but got the date wrong or right depending on how man time Epstein chatted to Ringo. The events now go up a gear with the decision to sack Best. (is there a definitive date on that decision) I do think L&M visited Skegness essentially to get Ringo to either say yes or no to their faces and to have a face to face chat with Rory and the others. Ringo gives his answer and agrees to join The Beatles. He and Rory make an agreement about his notice which he fulfils. This is against what L&M want as they hope to Ringo back with them immediately. While this happens Epstein has the meeting with Best.
The reason why I buy the L&M go to Skegness is that in the end the events happened so fast and The Beatles had shows lined up.
The thing is so many of the protagonists have passed away and not all were witness to the complete story. Only McCartney was present at both events.
I put forward this hypothesis in good faith for further discussion.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 12:10:38 GMT
Steve Riks has the FINAL WORD on what really happened! I think this is the most plausible event at what really happened! ha-ha
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 12:30:27 GMT
I thought the Lennon and McCartney visit to Skegness was 29th July?? That's 3 weeks before Ringo officially joins the band. That's not quick.
Also, Lennon and McCartney didn't drive. How did they get to Skegness? Surely Neil wasn't going to take them all that way to recruit Ringo in place of Pete??
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 16:22:50 GMT
Pothos makes a good point about the court case. The Beatles and Epstein may have stuck with a version of events for the court case and that's stuck ever since.
I still need to understand how Lennon and McCartney got to Skegness and who took them in the first place to believe this story though. The practicalities make it difficult to believe for me.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 17:06:38 GMT
Ringo says in that one interview he doesn't remember ever talking to John about it, just Brian! Now that surprises me.
Anyways to put this into perspective as to how hard it is to think back at old events, my childhood buddy Sonny, who now lives in Texas, one time we tried to figure out how and when we met. We both lived in the same housing plan and my family moved in Oct. 1956 when I was 9. Sonny moved in about the same time across the street and was 5 months older. But when and where we starting hanging out together we couldn't figure it out! So I think it was sometime in late '56. We are still friends after all these years and haven't seen each other since he left after high school was over and moved to Texas in 1965, but we call each other at least every few months to kibitz. We still can remember some of the pranks we pulled, but dates are oblivious. I'm sure you people have the same problem with events in your lives. Although people started writing down and questioning the Beatles very early on in their careers, say around '63 and diffently '64, events still become jumbled as to what really happened. And the longer you wait the harder it is to get to the real truth of matter. So now today I don't think we'll ever really know the truth as to what exactly happened.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 17:52:13 GMT
I take your point Rocky but Ringo was 22 years old when this happened. He may have forgot about a phone call from John through the years but forgetting about John and Paul turning up at Skegness?? I don't buy that, even through all his booze years.
Btw, love the Stevie Riks video. Funny as hell! I'm a big fan of his.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 18:31:33 GMT
I have to agree with you mrm, but why would Johnny Byrne lie or shall we say be mistaken? Is there any record of John or Paul saying they went up there to talk to Ringo?
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 18:57:42 GMT
I've no idea why he would. To my immediate knowledge, John or Paul have never commented on the circumstances of getting Ringo in and the Anthology would have been the perfect place for Paul to do this. It would have made a great story too which leads me to believe it never happened or it did happen and everyone is keeping quiet. But why would they do that??
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 19:41:12 GMT
A murder...get Inspector Lewis on it!!! lol
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Post by pothos on Oct 12, 2014 22:16:27 GMT
I think part of the reason Ringo joining The Beatles is so shrouded in mystery is that it is innately linked to the sacking of Pete Best and no one historically been able to get a accurate answer to that.
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 23:03:25 GMT
A murder...get Inspector Lewis on it!!! lol It's the third greatest conspiracy of all time!!!
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 23:20:52 GMT
I think part of the reason Ringo joining The Beatles is so shrouded in mystery is that it is innately linked to the sacking of Pete Best and no one historically been able to get a accurate answer to that. We have to remember guys use to quit and go to other groups all the time back then. No big deal and it probably wouldn't be a big deal today except what had happen after the Beatles made it in America. I just wonder what would have happened to them if Ringo had decided to go to NYC on his own and play in some jazz clubs as a freelance drummer. If Pete would have stayed on and no America, no Ed Sullivan. And they would have had just a couple of albums and ended up like RSATH. John would still be alive today and living with Cyn. Maybe working in a restaurant as a co-owner with his buddy Peter Shotten.
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 23:24:47 GMT
A murder...get Inspector Lewis on it!!! lol It's the third greatest conspiracy of all time!!! Ah let's see the JFK assassination, Monica Lewinsky, and this one. lol
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Post by mrmustard on Oct 12, 2014 23:31:15 GMT
It's the third greatest conspiracy of all time!!! Ah let's see the JFK assassination, Monica Lewinsky, and this one. lol I've said too much already. They are watching you know!!
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 23:35:36 GMT
Anyone else have any ideas to what would have happened to the Beatles if they wouldn't have made it? These answers, no one can be proven wrong. lol
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Post by ROCKY on Oct 12, 2014 23:37:28 GMT
Ah let's see the JFK assassination, Monica Lewinsky, and this one. lol I've said too much already. They are watching you know!! There's that 'THEY" again? Who's our BIG X-Files fan? Was it Mr. Kite or Amadeus?
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